Philosophy 1050: Introduction to Philosophy Week 7: Plato and the soul

Forms and The Soul  “When Socrates finished, Cebes intervened: Socrates, he said, everything else you said is excellent, I think, but men find it very hard to believe what you said about the soul. They think that after it has left the body it no longer exists anywhere, but that it is destroyed and dissolved on the day the man dies, as soon as it leaves the body; and that, on leaving it, it is dispersed like breath or smoke, has flown away and gone and is no longer anything anywhere.” (70a)

Putting together the pieces: Socrates and Immortality  We want to trace a route from: –The idea of the FORMS – actual things that we can know about, but have never perceived with our senses To: –The claim that the soul is IMMORTAL.

The Forms (Ideas)  -Do we say that there is such a thing as the Just itself, or not? –-We do say so, by Zeus.  -And the Beautiful, and the Good? –-Of course.  -And have you ever seen any of those things with your eyes? –-In no way. (65d)

The Forms (Ideas)  “We say that there is something that is equal. I do not mean a stick equal to a stick or a stone to a stone, or anything of that kind, but something else beyond all these, the Equal itself. Shall we say that this exists or not? –Indeed we shall, by Zeus, said Simmias, most definitely.  Whence have we acquired the knowledge of it?” (74a-b)

The Forms (Ideas)  If the forms cannot be seen or otherwise sensed, how do we have knowledge of them?  How are the Forms related to the ordinary objects we see around us?

One reconstruction (there are others that are just as good!)  1. We have knowledge of something that we have never used our body to perceive.  2. Therefore we have knowledge that we did not get through our bodies.  3. This knowledge comes from recollection of things that are invisible and eternal (how can we tell?)  4. Therefore we must have known these things before we were born (why?)  5. Therefore the soul must have existed before we were born and can continue to exist after we die.

Plato, recollection and knowledge: tying down the argument  If Socrates is successful, he will have made an argument that goes from the existence of the Forms to the immortality of his soul.  What would Sam Miller say about Socrates’ argument? What would Gretchen Weirob say?  What parts of the argument are well established? What parts are open to doubt? Why?

Plato and the Forms: Review  What do you think Socrates would say about the question of personal identity? What would he say in the Teleportation case? In the Julia North/Mary Frances Beaudine case?