Investigative Interviewing – Understanding the Art IIA – Boise Chapter April 8, 2014

First Instincts

First Instincts

Interview vs. Interrogation Interview: A discussion about a specific subject, best conducted between two persons, for the purpose of gathering accurate information regarding a specific subject Interrogation: A controlled conversation between two persons to obtain a confession or admission of guilt

Tools of Interrogation Proper tools are required Perception of interrogation

Interview Preparation To prepare thoroughly you must: Know your end game (individually and corporately) Know the risks Know your topic—document review and outline Know your subject Employment file Background check Other interviews

Interview Preparation: Develop a Strategy WHO is present in the interview can make all the difference—pros and cons of having counsel or others present. WHAT is your purpose in the interview? i.e., What do you hope to get out of it? What do you think they know? WHERE you interview sets the stage, sends a message, and sets the tone, especially for adversarial interviews.

Interview Preparation: Develop a Strategy WHEN you interview is important Time of day or week Order of interviews WHY have you decided to interview this person? Why now? Remember that every interviewee is a vulnerability to your investigation. HOW are you going to start and end the interview? What you say in the first minute can make or break you.

Interview Tips Communications researchers claim non-verbal communication makes up 65% to 70% of the “real” message. The real message can be contained in: voice - pitch, stress, tone, pauses, language - errors, qualifications, vagueness facial expressions - eye movement, licking lips body movements - grooming gestures, tapping

Spare Thinking Time S-l-o-w D-o-w-n Control Think before you speak The power of Silence

Take Control: “Have a seat.” Eliminate distractions Allow for open discussion Taking notes = control Recording interview? Fill in the missing links Move with a purpose and a rhythm Posture Witness

The Interview Setting Location—“Your place or mine?” Physical/Psychological advantage Props: Files, Cabinets, Labels Position person being interviewed near the exit with their back to the door 4–6 feet apart; entire body in view

Developing Rapport “To give of thyself” Be non-judgmental Even non-adversarial interviews require rapport Best sign of good rapport = conversational tone Rapport development continues even after interview is over

Mirroring - Rapport Means doing the mirror image of the movement of the subject in order to keep or take control of the interview

History of Deceit Desire to be truthful Develop internal response by three Develop patterns of deceit Develop signals

Deceit What Indicates Deception? According to Freud: “He that has eyes to see and ears to hear may convince himself that no mortal can keep a secret. If his lips are silent, he chatter with his fingertips; betrayal oozes out of him at every pore”.

And the #1 Most Common Interview Mistake Is . . . TALKING OR WRITING AND NOT LISTENING!

Listening Discriminatory Listening Passive Listening My Perceptions and Beliefs Passive Listening More Attention to Notes then the Subject Empathetic Listening Observes and Absorbs the Subject

Interviewing Questions Introductory Informational Assessment Closing Admission-seeking

Introductory Questions Provides an introduction Establishes rapport Establishes the theme of the interviews Observes the person’s reactions

General Rules for Introductory Questions Don’t interview more than one person at a time Conduct interviews under conditions of privacy Ask non-sensitive questions (Minimization) Instead of: Use: Investigation Inquiry Audit Analysis Interview Ask a few questions Embezzle Shortage or paperwork problems

General Rules for Introductory Questions Get a commitment for assistance Make a transitional statement Seek continuous agreement Do not promise confidentiality Negotiations Discussing the source of allegations

Informational Questions Open questions Closed questions Leading questions Question sequences

Informational Question Techniques Begin by asking questions that are not likely to cause the respondent to become defensive or hostile. Ask the questions in a manner that will develop the facts in the order of their occurrence, or in some other systematic order. Ask only one question at a time, and frame the question so that only one answer is required. Ask straightforward and frank questions; generally avoid shrewd approaches. Keep interruptions to a minimum, and do not stop the subject’s narrative without good reason.

Informational Question Techniques Give the respondent ample time to answer; do not rush. Try to help the respondent remember, but do not suggest answers; and be careful not to imply any particular answer by facial expressions, gestures, methods of asking questions, or types of questions asked. Repeat or rephrase questions, if necessary, to get the desired facts. Be sure you understand the answers, and if they are not perfectly clear, have the subject interpret them at that time instead of saving this for later. Give the subject an opportunity to qualify their answers.

Informational Question Techniques Separate facts from inferences. Have the subject give comparisons by percentages, fractions, estimates of time and distance, and other such methods to ensure accuracy. After the respondent has given a narrative account, ask follow-up questions about every key issue that has been discussed. Upon conclusion of the direct questioning, ask the respondent to summarize the information given; then summarize the facts, and have the respondent verify that these conclusions are correct.

Methodology Informational Phase Begin with background questions Observe verbal and nonverbal behavior Ask non-leading (open) questions Approach sensitive questions carefully

Dealing With Difficult People Do not react Disarm the person Change tactics Escort to the door Inability to leave

Volatile Interviews An interview that has the potential to bring about strong emotional reactions in the respondent There should be two interviewers Should be conducted on a surprise basis The order of questions should be out of sequence Use hypothetical questions

Assessment Questions Establishes the credibility of the respondent Norming or calibrating Process of observing behavior before critical questions are asked Physiology of deception People lie for one of two reasons: to receive rewards or avoid punishment The human body will attempt to relieve stress through verbal and nonverbal clues

Methodology Interviewer: “Most of them aren’t criminals at all. A lot of times, they’re just trying to save their jobs or just trying to get by because the company is so cheap that they won’t pay people what they are worth. Do you know what I mean?” Interviewer: “Why do you think someone around here might be justified in making a secret arrangement with one of the company’s vendors?” Interviewer: “How do you think we should deal with someone who got in a bind and did something wrong in the eyes of the company?” Interviewer: “Do you think someone in your department might have done something wrong because they thought they were justified?”

Methodology Interviewer: “Have you ever felt yourself—even though you didn’t go through with it—justified in taking advantage of your position?” Interviewer: “Who in your department do you feel would think they were justified in doing something against the company?” Interviewer: “Is there any reason why someone who works with you would say they thought you might feel justified in doing something wrong?” Interviewer: “What would concern you most if you did something wrong and it was found out?”

Closing Questions Reconfirming facts Gathering additional facts What could you ask? Concluding the interview on a positive note Why?

Nonverbal Clues Full-body motions Anatomical physical responses Breathing Sweating Illustrators The Face Mouth Eyes Manipulators Fleeing positions Crossing Arms or Legs Reaction to evidence Fake smiles

Physical Indicators of Deceit Everyone but the most skilled commando exhibits involuntary outward physical signs when they are discussing something that makes them uncomfortable. The main indicator is change in movement. Eyes Up, down, all around Look for variation

Physical Indicators of Deceit Posture Determine under casual circumstances Observe change as pressure builds Changes in demeanor Mouth, Hands, Attention, Ticks

Nonverbal Clues Touching the Face

Nonverbal Clues Sensitive Nose

Nonverbal Clues The Mouth

Nonverbal Clues The Eyes

Nonverbal Clues Blinking

Nonverbal Clues Eyebrows

Nonverbal Clues Crossing

Nonverbal Clues The Hands

Nonverbal Clues Posture

Verbal Clues to Deception Changes in speech patterns Repetition of the question Comments regarding the interview Selective memory Making excuses Oaths Character testimony Answering with a question

Verbal Clues to Deception Overuse of respect Increasingly weaker denials Failure to deny Avoidance of emotive words Refusal to implicate other suspects Tolerant attitudes Reluctance to terminate interview Feigned unconcern

Verbal Indicators of Deceit Disruption in the speech pattern Stammer Stutter Slurring Buying time—repeating the question “I don’t understand what you’re asking me.” Utterances Whew! Sigh Snicker

Qualified Memory Lapses “I don’t think so.” “I can’t recall.” “Not to my knowledge.” “I can’t remember.” “Not that I can think of.” “Not that I can remember.” “Not as far as I know.” “I have never heard that before.”

The Criminal Gets Religion! “Honest to God . . .” “I swear on my mothers grave . . .” “May my parents drop dead if I’m lying . . .” “As God is my witness . . .”

Opposites and Qualifiers “Honestly . . .” “I would never do . . .” “I’m not the type of person . . .” “You may not believe this, but . . .” “This is going to sound like a lie, but . . .”

I’m GUILTY! Past trouble Similar incident in the past, admitted to it Third-person Denies virtually everything Prejudice on the interviewers part

False Issues History Unjustified anger Argument over irrelevant issues

The Word NO Timing is everything—too late or too soon? Quality over quantity—“No, no, no, no, no.” Keep it cool—“ NOOOOOO!” Size matters—½ No (“N…”)

The Half No

The Verbal Queues Seeing for Ourselves

Closing the Deal Requires momentum Requires timing Requires control May only get one chance . . . be ready! Happens in steps Don’t rush it!

Admission-Seeking Questions Distinguish the innocent from the culpable Obtain a valid confession Obtain from the confessor a written statement acknowledging the facts

Admission-Seeking Questions Presence of outsiders Miranda warnings Theme development People will confess if they perceive that the benefits outweigh the penalties Offer a morally acceptable reason for the confessor’s behavior Convey absolute confidence in the premise of the admission you seek from the subject

Accusing an Innocent Person The accuser has reasonable suspicion or predication to believe the accused has committed an offense. The accusation is made under conditions of privacy. The accuser does not take any action likely to make an innocent person confess. The accusation is conducted under reasonable conditions.

Subject Facts Subject is cashier & responsible for sales and cash refunds Internal Audit determined - Most returns of any other cashier Used employee discount to purchase 11 TVs and returned 8 of them for cash Theory – Sold TVs to others and faked returns and/or created fake returns and pocketed the cash

The Admission Seeking Interview

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Direct accusation Observe reaction Repeat accusation

The Accusation

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Interrupt denials Delays Interruptions Reasoning

Cut off Denials

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Establish rationalization Unfair treatment Inadequate recognition Financial problems Aberration of conduct Family problems Accuser’s actions Establish rationalization Stress, drugs, alcohol Revenge Depersonalizing the victim Minor moral infraction Altruism Genuine need

Establish Rationalizations

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Diffuse alibis Display physical evidence Discuss witnesses Discuss deceptions Present alternative

Diffuse Alibis

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Benchmark admission Reinforce rationalization

Benchmark to Final Admission

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Verbal confession That the accused knew the conduct was wrong Facts known only to the perpetrator An estimate of the number of instances or amounts A motive for the offense When the misconduct began

Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Verbal confession When/if the misconduct was terminated Others involved Physical evidence Disposition of proceeds Location of assets Specifics of each offense

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 1: Accuse the Subject “You did …” Lay out the facts that relate to subject’s guilt. Observe the subject’s reaction. If the subject denies responsibility - repeat the accusation.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 2: Cut off Denials Stop denials by subject or he/she will become stronger and doubt the strength of your case. Interrupt and prevent additional denials - remember this is not an interview. Use nonverbal gestures to stop denials. A guilty subject will grow weaker as the denials are stopped. Tell the subject it is his/her turn to listen.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 3: Provide reasons to confess Tell the suspect why he committed the crime: Rationalize and minimize the subject’s behavior. Use the “emotional handles” located during the interview - Mom, drugs, alcohol, Give the subject reasons to confess. PATIENCE, PERSISTENCE & “PATTER”. Patter per Webster is “rapid speech of a salesman”. Maintain a monologue and momentum.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 4: Redirect Protests Protests are reasons for innocence provided by the subject. The guilty subject will use protests because the denials have failed. Protests many times are accurate - don’t try to argue over something that is hard to refute. Try to incorporate protests into reasons to confess.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 5: Maintain the Subject’s Attention Subjects have a tendency to withdraw after denials and protests fail. Move closer to subject - violate his personal space. Get closer than 18 inches. Use the subject’s name and reek sincerity. Make the subject focus on the reason to confess.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 6: Is the Subject Receptive? Nonverbal cues to subject giving in: Head drops Body leans forward Tears - the “last line of defense” Reduce “Reasons to Confess” to a succinct concept.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 7: Present a Good/Bad Option –Alternative Question Present two explanations for subject’s criminal behavior: One explanation is objectionable - bad. The other explanation understandable - good. Tell the subject he based his actions on the good option. Ask the subject to confirm the good option.

Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 8: Obtain the Confession If the subject selects the “good option”: Express empathy and understanding. Ask open ended questions followed by more specific detailed questions. Get details of crime only known to subject. If the subject refuses to make a selection go back to different reasons to confess. Confessions come in pieces not one complete statement. Subjects will “test the water” with small omissions Give the subject several little pieces or statements they can say yes to.

Admission Seeking – The Flow After the subject makes a verbal confession express understanding. “You made a mistake”. Shake the subject’s hand and say “… I’m proud of you….” No high fives or gloating in front of the subject Why the act? Get the confession on paper.

Taking a Signed Statement Voluntary confessions Intent Instead of: Use: Lie I knew the statement/action was untrue. Steal I wrongfully took the property of ______ for my own benefit. Embezzle I wrongfully took ______’s property which had been entrusted to me, and used it for my own benefit. Fraud I knowingly told ______ an untrue statement and he/she/they relied on it.

Taking a Signed Statement Approximate dates of the offense Approximate amounts of losses Approximate number of instances Willingness to cooperate Excuse clause Have the confessor read the statement Truthfulness of statement Preparing the statement

Take a Signed Statement

Scientific Content Analysis (SCAN) Interviewing is often time consuming and difficult due to the investigators case load. Statement analysis Utilizes written statements to narrow the focus of an investigation Eliminates innocent parties in minimal time Structured on proven interviewing techniques

Famous Statement “…I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski. I never told anybody to lie. Not a single time. Never. These allegations are false and I need to go back to work for the American people.”

CONCLUSION When to use interview techniques At work? At home? Boss Co-workers At home? Spouse Children Neighbors

CONCLUSION II What do the indicators really mean? The subject is guilty NO The subject is lying

P.S. I have only given you some of what is available to you in the search for truth. I learn something new every time I “interview” someone. Seek out additional information in your quest for the truth.

Investigative Interviewing: Understanding the Art The End . . . No, Just the Beginning!

Investigative Interviewing – Understanding the Art Larry Rosipajla, CPA, CFE Forensic Alliance LLC (303) 854-7007 Cell rosipajla@forensicalliance.biz www.forensicalliance.biz