1. 802.24 Vertical Applications TAG
November 2018 Meeting
Bangkok, Thailand
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

2. doc.: IEEE 802.15-<doc#>
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Overview
Officers
TAG Chair: Tim Godfrey
Secretary & TAG Vice Chair: Ben Rolfe
Task Groups
Smart Grid TG Tim Godfrey
IoT TG Chris DiMinico
26 Voting Members
Agenda:
Meetings for the Week
Tuesday PM
Wednesday PM
Thursday PM
Manual attendance tracking for & members
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3. Agenda – 802.24-18-0024r4 Tim Godfrey, EPRI
Agenda - November 2018, Bangkok, Thailand 1
Tuesday PM2 session
1.1
Call session to order, present “Guidelines for IEEE SA meetings”, Quorum
Godfrey 5
4:00 PM
1.2
Review of Agenda / Approval of Agenda
4:05 PM
1.3
Approve minutes from prior TAG meeting
4:10 PM
1.4
Introduction/meeting objectives / Review action items from previous meeting
4:15 PM
1.5
Liaison Review 15
4:20 PM
1.6
Smart Grid Task Group
4:35 PM
1.7
ITU and regulatory items
Godfrey/Holcomb
1.8
Review and resolve comments on TSN White Paper comment collection
4:50 PM
1.9
New Activity Planning
5:05 PM 2
Recess
2.1
Joint Meeting with TSN
Godfrey/Farkas 30
6:00 PM
Wednesday PM2 session
Call to Order TAG
DiMinico
2.2
Discussion on "Network Integration" action item from EC leadership meeting
4:30 PM
2.3
Call to Order IoT Task Group
5:00 PM
2.4
Liaison Coordinator's Report
2.5
Collaboration (informal liaison) with Wi-Fi Alliance on IoT Use Cases)
DiMinico/Godfrey
5:15 PM
2.6
Review of IoT white paper development
5:30 PM
2.7
Discussion on plan and new activities for IoT task group and broader engagement
5:45 PM
2.8 3
Thursday PM2 session
3.1
Call to Order Smart Grid Task Group
3.2
Comments and feedback from NIST on Smart Grid Wireless Standards Matrix
3.3
Any incoming comments from IEEE PES PSCC S6 Task Force regarding contribution to "Standards for integrating Home Automation IoT to Power Utilities Communication System"
3.4
Liasion Discussion of IEC SEG8 report "Monitoring and impact assessment of emerging technologies and architectures"
4:45 PM
3.5
Coordination with on g and ah Coexistence project
Godfrey/Rolfe 20
3.6
New Action Items, New Activities, AOB 10
5:35 PM
3.7
Adjourn
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

4. Guidelines for IEEE-SA Meetings
All IEEE-SA standards meetings shall be conducted in compliance with all applicable laws, including antitrust and competition laws.
Don’t discuss the interpretation, validity, or essentiality of patents/patent claims.
Don’t discuss specific license rates, terms, or conditions.
Relative costs, including licensing costs of essential patent claims, of different technical approaches may be discussed in standards development meetings.
Technical considerations remain primary focus
Don’t discuss or engage in the fixing of product prices, allocation of customers, or division of sales markets.
Don’t discuss the status or substance of ongoing or threatened litigation.
Don’t be silent if inappropriate topics are discussed… do formally object.
If you have questions, contact the IEEE-SA Standards Board Patent Committee Administrator at or visit
See IEEE-SA Standards Board Operations Manual, clause and “Promoting Competition and Innovation: What You Need to Know about the IEEE Standards Association's Antitrust and Competition Policy” for more details.
This slide set is available at
IEEE 802 Executive Committee

5. Participation in IEEE 802 Meetings
November 2016
doc.: ec EC
Participation in IEEE 802 Meetings
Participation in any IEEE 802 meeting (Sponsor, Sponsor subgroup, Working Group, Working Group subgroup, etc.) is on an individual basis
• Participants in the IEEE standards development individual process shall act based on their qualifications and experience. ( section 5.2.1)
• IEEE 802 Working Group membership is by individual; “Working Group members shall participate in the consensus process in a manner consistent with their professional expert opinion as individuals, and not as organizational representatives”. (subclause “Establishment”, of the IEEE 802 LMSC Working Group Policies and Procedures)
• Participants have an obligation to act and vote as an individual and not under the direction of any other individual or group. A Participant’s obligation to act and vote as an individual applies in all cases, regardless of any external commitments, agreements, contracts, or orders.
• Participants shall not direct the actions or votes of any other member of an IEEE 802 Working Group or retaliate against any other member for their actions or votes within IEEE 802 Working Group meetings, see section and the IEEE 802 LMSC Working Group Policies and Procedures, subclause “Chair”, list item x.
By participating in IEEE 802 meetings, you accept these requirements. If you do not agree to these policies then you shall not participate.
(Latest revision of IEEE 802 LMSC Working Group Policies and Procedures: )
Slide 5
IEEE 802 Executive Committee
Page 5
Dorothy Stanley, HP Enterprise

6. Administration Attendance take on IMAT Web page Mailing list
Reciprocal rights for most WGs
Web page
Mailing list
(voters list)
Document archive
IEEE 802 announcement reflector,
Send to with no subject and with the
following 2 lines appearing first in the body of the message
Subscribe stds-802-all
end
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

7. 802.24 TAG Approve September minutes TAG Action Items from September:
Send Sub-1GHz white paper back to Tanya at IEEE for publishing.
Farrokh Khatibi will provide introduction to ATIS group for liaison
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

8. Sub 1 GHz White Paper Returned by Tanya at IEEE for final review
Review, return, and approve to publish
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

9. Tuesday
Smart Grid TG
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

10. ITU and Radio Regulatory Items
Update from – Jay Holcomb
Open Questions
RE: FCC notice on 3.7 – 4.2 GHz. Are sharing rules similar to CBRS?
Implication of CBRS rules for Smart Grid FANs - topic for white paper?
Existing 802 standards
802.11y – not used,
not use.
HRP-UWB low band (Part 15 – licensing doesn’t matter)
1.4 GHz spectrum recently announced is being used for telemetry in oil/gas industry with s
Traditional license model – geographic ownership
Part 90
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

11. TSN White Paper
802.1 TSN interested parties joining for this meeting slot
Comment Collection
The TAG and TSN TG solicit comments on sgtg "Utility Applications of Time Sensitive Networking White Paper"
Comment submittal spreadsheet provided
Combined Comments Document
(to be prepared after closing of collection)
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

12. Future Opportunities Tracking
At plenary meetings – review upcoming needs and opportunities for projects.
Are there any new utility industry activities or organizations that could benefit from a liaison to ?
ATIS is developing spreadsheet to classify IoT services, and their characteristics, and communication link requirements. Establish a liaison with that group.
Potentially have a liaison request by September meeting
Can we progress or expand the activities of the IoT Task Group?
Haptics and Teleoperation as a vertical application (1-5mS latency)
802 can be a complement to URLLC in industrial communications, remote surgery,
Suggested by Paul Nikolich:
Real Time Applications – extending TSN to wireless
activity around VR
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

13. “Low latency” White Paper
Achieving low latency with IEEE 802 standards
Including wired and wireless communications
An alternative (or complement) to 5G URLLC
A set of vertical applications enabled by low latency
The challenges of reliable low latency in unlicensed spectrum.
Adapting TSN’s “FRER” feature
Adapting 802 wireless to licensed spectrum?
Operating over multiple bands or channels?
Special cases for high data rates for immersive video
Several people interested in contributing
Action:
Post call for contributions
Start reviewing contributions in January
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

14. Future Opportunities Tracking (.2)
white paper on IoT and P2413?
Maybe more towards completion of P2413?
Agnostic to underlying communications, but applicable to all 802 standards.
Highlight the relationship between P2413 and 802 standards
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

15. Future Opportunities Tracking
ULI
Incorporating features from RP which are currently used in utility networking into ULI standard
Some other areas of potential interest
Develop use cases and examples of an integrated multi-802 network including Explain the 48/64 bit bridging issues and solutions.
Still in development (review again at end of 2018)
s SMR – spectrum management resources
Can provide an input with respect to Smart Grid or IoT?
IEC 65C WG 17 dealing with coexistence management and spectrum policy
ETSI TCRRS reconfigurable radio systems
ETSI TCERM WG 41 – defining a central coordination point to handle spectrum.
Sharing and increasing coexistence and providing better QoS
July 2018
Managing radios and link adaptation – a common issue across different radio types.
Is 4s providing needed measurements? Can 2-way power control be leveraged in grid applications?
Can this standard be used as a “sensor” to understand how to best use 915 MHz ISM?
Could we create an “application guide” for applying 15.4s in sub-1GHz spectrum? Better sharing/coex?
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

16. Other Future Opportunities
w LPWAN (and links to IETF)
An 802-based alternative to proprietary LPWAN’s
White paper to compare and contrast with other LPWAN technologies?
See where IG-DEP goes.
See what the new direction is….
Applying new bands and channel plans
u and v completed. Add bands in various regions for existing PHYs commonly used in smart grid.
Action:
Early 2019: Plan update of first white paper to address latest amendments of w, x, y
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

17. 2019 Planning “Low latency” White Paper
Start in January
A whitepaper/document for application-specific use cases of Sub 1GHz standards g and ah. Identifying where each standard is most suitable, and how to make best use of mechanisms proposed in TG.
Can this also include applying s in sub-1GHz spectrum?
white paper on IoT and P2413
P2413 entering Sponsor Ballot
Update of first Smart Grid white paper to address latest amendments of u, v, w, x, y
Nendica – Collaborate on Nendica Factory IoT?
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

18. Recess until 18:00
Then Joint meeting with TSN in Pavilion 1&2 – 4th Floor
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

19. TSN White Paper – Joint review with 802.1 TSN
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

20. Wednesday TAG
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

21. “Network Integration” action item
Action assigned from 802 EC leadership conference in July.
Discussion on role and positioning of IEEE 802 in standards, especially with respect to 3GPP and the publicity on “5G”
What is meant by Network Integration?
Does the IEEE 802 architecture provide a unique value to vertical market?
Is IEEE 802 more suited to deployment in the communication infrastructure of private enterprise, industry, and the individual user? (Compared to 3GPP, which is more oriented towards service providers?)
The IEEE 802 architecture enables networks that are like Ethernet: Well understood, mature, predictable. A “cleaner” integration of disparate technologies under the common architecture and addressing.
Can we develop a clearer definition and description of this distinction and the value for the user / implementer?
Can this be developed into a white paper?
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

22. Contribution Max Riegel
Thoughts on IEEE 802 network integration with respect to P802.1CF r0
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

23. Discussion Based on many discussions of the place of 802.11 in 5G.
5G SC
Conclusions – AANI integrating into 5G domain. Nothing corresponding in 3GPP
Industry connections – NENDICA
Flexible Factory IoT, Data Center Bridging
What’s missing – a picture of 802 as a peer to 5G
5G promises they will do “everything”
But, they don’t do anything wired
5G requires an extensive PLMN to support it.
It is designed to help the cellular operator grow their market
Verticals might not want an operator in the middle of their network
Value proposition: 802 networks are customer-owned
Example – Santa Clara Emergency services issues
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

24. Wednesday IoT TG
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

25. 802.24.2 802.24.2 Liaison Coordinator's Report Wi-Fi Alliance Liaison
Peter Jones
Wi-Fi Alliance Liaison
Informal structure
Sharing WFA document on IoT Use Cases
Review and response
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

26. 802.24.2 Status and development of IoT White paper
Ludwig is developing some related materials.
Can we pull new developments from P2413 into this white paper?
Start Single Pair Ethernet white paper through IEEE process r0
Comment collection on reflector
TIA and IEC standards related to SPE and IoT
TIA TR42 report to 802.3, ISO IEC SC25
Power over Ethernet – UL and NEC are getting involved
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

27. Building engagement in TG2 IoT
Discussion on plan and new activities for IoT task group and broader engagement
What are the IoT activities in IEEE 802?
– Wi-SUN is going after IoT in addition to Smart Grid
w – LPWA another IoT focus
802.11ah (Halow), ba (WUR)
Can we find volunteers to contribute to IoT white paper?
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

28. Thursday Smart Grid TG
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

29. Wireless Matrix Tim Godfrey, EPRI
Feedback and questions have come in from SEPA and NIST
IEEE Std ah:
What version did we use to populate the matrix that the spreadsheet content file was dated (assuming that was 2013)? What David called out and I see also is the IEEE Std ah-2016 (approved Dec2016, pub May2017). I really thought the prior work was just on released standards, was I wrong?
Tim reported early on that ah review/update was delegated to Alfred Asterjadhi and it was completed, except for a spectrum efficiency Q which was assigned to ax chair to investigate. Was that 11ah review/updated folded back into the matrix? Tim/Doug this is a question for you two.
If the 11ah update folded in, my diff compare between the earlier 2013 matrix version with our working version, did not indicate any content changes for 11ah. So did the IEEE members of this year’s matrix review/updating, work from 2016 version and did not note any diffs from the era content?
IEEE Std , ac, n:
Was reviewed and updated? If updated, which version was it updated to? If it was the latest version, then as David stated, the latest version of is and it contains ac-2013 and n-2009 and therefor the entries for 11ac and 11n should be deleted, correct? The assumption is that 11n and 11ac names should be changed to indicate n-2009 and ac-2013.
IEEE HRP-UWB – David using that ref for web searches does bring up several scholarly hits via Google, or check with Ruben Salazar (Landis+Gyr)
Uploaded commented version:
sgtg-wireless-characteristics-matrix-update Draft-dot24edits.xlsx
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

30. IEEE PSCC TF S6
January 2018 Study Report – "Standards for integrating Home Automation IoT to Power Utilities Communication Systems“
Placeholder for any discussing any liaison input or review of new draft
Nothing received as of Nov meeting
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

31. Liaison with IEC SEG8 Scope of SEG8:
Assess, provide an overview and prioritization of the evolution of technical development and standardization in the field of communication technologies and architectures
The report includes aspects relevant to both Smart Grid and IoT.
Document shared in Private Area
IEC_SEG8_Deliverable2_draft_181118_ext_clean.pdf
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

32. IEC SEG8 Document review and discussion
Key chapters relevant to input from
IoT Technologies
Single-pair Ethernet (SPE)
Deterministic Networking
Low-Power Wide-Area Networks (LPWAN)
V2V, V2I, V2P and V2N communication technologies
Updated version uploaded to private area with annotations
IEC_SEG8_Deliverable2_draft_181118_ext_(dot24 annotations ).pdf
Call for other 802 WGs to participate in review and provide comments
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

33. g and ah Coexistence
will develop a whitepaper/document for application-specific use cases. Identifying where each standard is most suitable, and how to make best use of other changes.
Identify use cases where g is not sufficient and both are needed
Could be choices of applications, channel guidelines, duty cycle,
Avoid perception that 802 standards are unable to coexist
Evaluate and describe potential application-level implications of delay/latency increases due to mutual interference
If NS-3 simulation models can be shared, others in IEEE 802 could progress that work.
MERL will share simulation models on Github.
New modules for 11ah 15.4g
No action at this meeting
Tim Godfrey, EPRI

34. 802.24 TAG closing Action Items from this meeting Any New Business?
Put Sub 1 GHz white paper on web site
Update Call for Comments on TSN
Call for comments on SEG8 document
Any New Business?
Tim Godfrey, EPRI