1. Darwin Is Soooo Last Year AFACCT 2010

2. Just kidding… Chuck Darwin (1809-1882)

3. Charles Darwin 1809-1882 Voyage of HMS Beagle 1831-1836 “On the Origin of Species” 1859

4. Science and Religion Since Darwin The “Fairness” Issue Voices from an American Community College and The Blogosphere Paul A. Billeter and Danielle M. Quill

5. Richard Dawkins “The Greatest Show on Earth ” “The Greatest Show on Earth ” “The Greatest Show on Earth ”  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14165 94787/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=4 86539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe- 1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618680004&pf_r d_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GGN1 Z48MYD3Y26ZMCCM

6.  …and now try to do that at a community college in southern Maryland…

7. The College Of Southern Maryland

8. Saint Mary Charles Calvert 3 rd Lord Baltimore Cecilius Calvert  2nd Lord Baltimore

10. The College Of Southern Maryland  Open Admission  8,000 credit students Mean age 26; Modal 19.4 64% Female 50% Transfer Track 24% Developmental  129 F/T Faculty (about 2x P/T)  4 Campuses Charles, LaPlata St. Mary’s Calvert Waldorf Center for Higher Education

11. The College Of Southern Maryland Belize (formerly British Honduras) San Salvador Isl, Galapagos San Salvador Isl, Galapagos (formerly James Island)

12. The College Of Southern Maryland From the student newspaper, The Hawkeye, Dec 2001 “WHAT WAY DID YOU PREPARE FOR YOUR FINALS?” “You don’t know it! You won’t know it!” “Pray for a miracle.”* “I memorize everything and do the best I can.” “The way I study is get a good sleep and pray!”* *Recognition of a not-disinterested deity concerned with student exam grades (and an alternative theory of “grade inflation. ) …and the 50% threshold

13. Gallup Poll Gallup Poll Feb. 2009 Based on 1,018 telephone interviews with national adults, aged 18 and older, 95% confidence with maximum margin of sampling error is ±3% Gallup Poll

14. Gallup Poll 6-7 Feb. 2009 Based on 1,018 telephone interviews with national adults, aged 18 and older, 95% confidence with maximum margin of sampling error is ±3%

15. E-mail from student’s mother to Biology Department Chairman, Summer, 2006 I have a student who is attending the above mentioned summer session class. The professor is Billeter. My child came home concerned about the fact that many comments were made regarding “faith” (Faith in God) and science and how the professor’s relationship changed with his mother over his knowledge of the sciences and implied a critical look at the sciences would discount faith. With comments like these on the first day of class, I am concerned that this class will be an Anti-Faith in God approach to Zoology 1020. I am a Christian. I don’t consider these comments and opinions appropriate for a public college or used on impressionable minds. Please address this issue in your department. There is inherent risk in attempting to address these topics in biology class. 1. If it IS broke, don’t fix it. 2. Leave well enough alone. 3. Hippocrates4.“Mokita”

16. BIO 1020 Zoology Non-majors Non-majors Terminal, both first and last college science course Terminal, both first and last college science course ~80% Female ~80% Female Problem-solving laboratory Problem-solving laboratory

17. But first… “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” or “A Tale of Two Cities”  June 2004:The Port Tobacco Players present Inherit the Wind  Director Justin McKean sets the play in La Plata rather than Hillsboro, the metaphorical Dayton TN of the Scopes Trial Photos courtesy of Dave Bayle, Port Tobacco Players

18. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” September 2001 WTC Attack September 2001 WTC Attack November 2002 Charles Co School Board shifts rightward along with rest of USA. November 2002 Charles Co School Board shifts rightward along with rest of USA. June 2004 PTP production of “Inherit the Wind” June 2004 PTP production of “Inherit the Wind” September 2004 CC School Board detonates a real “Inherit the Wind” drama in LaPlata. September 2004 CC School Board detonates a real “Inherit the Wind” drama in LaPlata. Bush vs. Kerry is in full swing. Bush vs. Kerry is in full swing. 04/05 The Kitzmiller et. al. v Dover Area S.B. is capturing national and international attention. 04/05 The Kitzmiller et. al. v Dover Area S.B. is capturing national and international attention. Terri Schaivo dies in 3/05 in Florida after highly politicized, rancorous national bioethics debate. Terri Schaivo dies in 3/05 in Florida after highly politicized, rancorous national bioethics debate.

19. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” 9/04: CCSB announces list of 100 possible agenda items for the school year. 9/04: CCSB announces list of 100 possible agenda items for the school year. Mostly mundane typical SB agenda items but… Mostly mundane typical SB agenda items but… a proposals “inviting the Gideons to schools to offer Bibles to our students” a proposals “inviting the Gideons to schools to offer Bibles to our students” to have science books removed that are “biased toward evolution.” to have science books removed that are “biased toward evolution.” allow students release-time from school classes to attend off-campus Bible classes allow students release-time from school classes to attend off-campus Bible classes revise the sex education curriculum to focus on abstinence-only and pro-life positions. revise the sex education curriculum to focus on abstinence-only and pro-life positions.

20. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” The proposals did not go unnoticed…

21. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” The Maryland Independent Community Forum Letter 1 (excerpted): “… I for one am glad to see the board discussing topics such as removing evolution from textbooks and making Bibles available to the students. If Christianity is true, then these changes would be the most positive the school board could make. If Christianity is false, then creationism is bad science and the Bible is irrelevant, albeit it is great literature. … the real issue behind both controversies [Defense of Marriage Act and Darwinism] is this: Are God and Jesus Christ who they claim to be—creator and lord of the universe? With history and science firmly on the side of Christianity, I give my support to those on the board interested in moving in this direction. Anyone [who does not believe in literal creation] should be required to bring forth facts that would support their position. After all, if evolution is true, everything in nature is some form of proof or another and it should be easy for the evolutionist to make his case. Good luck. (Green 2004)

22. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” The CCSB story appears in the Maryland Independent the same day that The Washington Post reports a program to supply laptop computers to underprivileged kids. The CCSB story appears in the Maryland Independent the same day that The Washington Post reports a program to supply laptop computers to underprivileged kids. Later, the Post picked up the Charles County School Board’s controversial proposals and the article, through the words of our citizens, portrays Charles County in what some would consider a “Scopes Monkey Trial” light.

23. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” Partlow, Joshua. 2004. Religion Colors Goals for Schools; Giving Out Bibles Among Suggestions. The Washington Post, Oct 3, Southern Maryland Section. A local high school guidance counselor was “flabbergasted” and vowed to: A local high school guidance counselor was “flabbergasted” and vowed to: “pull my kids out of school and teach them myself” [if the Bible/anti-evolution initiatives passed.] School board president, Kathy Levenduski, said: “Voodoo is a recognized religion. Wicca is a recognized religion. My biggest concern with opening to all is just that, we open to all.” School board president, Kathy Levenduski, said: “Voodoo is a recognized religion. Wicca is a recognized religion. My biggest concern with opening to all is just that, we open to all.” A local high school teacher wrote to Partlow: “It would be a shame to see our credibility sullied by a silly literal interpretation of a borrowed Bronze Age Babylonian creation myth.” A local high school teacher wrote to Partlow: “It would be a shame to see our credibility sullied by a silly literal interpretation of a borrowed Bronze Age Babylonian creation myth.” The president of the local Education Association of Charles County said: The president of the local Education Association of Charles County said: “It’s like a throwback to the 50’s. I didn’t realize we’re in the Bible Belt, but I guess we are.”

24. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” Partlow reported that, in his interviews, no member of the board “actively supported the idea.” Collins Bailey, the school board member who suggested inviting the Gideons to offer Bibles to the students, responded that discussion of the topic was “way premature.” Mr. Bailey is an ardent advocate for his views and clearly represents a large segment of our electorate. He is challenging House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer for the 5 th District U.S House Seat in 2010. Hoyer typically wins elections by a 2:1 margin over his 15 congressional terms. He beat Bailey 74%-25% in 2008. Unlike the Book of Samuel, in Maryland’s 5 th District Goliath always prevails.

25. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” Board member Mark Crawford, a graduate of Liberty University said: Board member Mark Crawford, a graduate of Liberty University said: “anything that will help build character and instill morals…is a benefit.” “anything that will help build character and instill morals…is a benefit.” He also said: He also said: “Noah Webster [1758-1843] was considered the schoolmaster of the nation, and he said education without the Bible is useless. And Teddy Roosevelt said a good understanding of the scriptures is worth more than a college education.”

26. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” Margaret Young, vice chairman of the board said: Margaret Young, vice chairman of the board said: “Certainly only one [theory] has been taught in the public school system, yet the kids go to Sunday school and are taught an opposing point of view. They need both theories, so they are informed students.” The chairman of the board, Kathy Levanduski, said: The chairman of the board, Kathy Levanduski, said: “We have to be very aware that anything can happen at any time. It’s up to the public to decide … and voice their opinion.”

27. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” Up the road, in Dover PA, as Kitzmiller v Dover SB played out, the citizens of Dover in a rancorous school board election defeated the entire I.D. slate in 11/05 and replaced them with candidates who supported the teaching of Darwin. Up the road, in Dover PA, as Kitzmiller v Dover SB played out, the citizens of Dover in a rancorous school board election defeated the entire I.D. slate in 11/05 and replaced them with candidates who supported the teaching of Darwin. Federal Judge John E. Jones III, nominated by Sen. Rick Santorum and appointed by President Bush, ruled against the school board’s attempt to teach I.D. as science in high school biology classes and as a viable alternative to Darwinian evolution. 12/05 Federal Judge John E. Jones III, nominated by Sen. Rick Santorum and appointed by President Bush, ruled against the school board’s attempt to teach I.D. as science in high school biology classes and as a viable alternative to Darwinian evolution. 12/05

28. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” Down the road in Charles County, the anti-evolution school board candidates were largely defeated as well. Vice chairman Margaret Young withdrew from the race in September. Vice chairman Margaret Young withdrew from the race in September. Mark Crawford was defeated. Mark Crawford was defeated. Collins Bailey retained his seat but received the fewest votes of the seven member board. Collins Bailey retained his seat but received the fewest votes of the seven member board. CCSB candidates do not run with party affiliation but their positions are generally known. In 2006 every Republican, including a popular sheriff, commissioners, delegates, congressional candidates were defeated. They stood in the shadow of a now very unpopular president. Darwin and Bibles were not central issues even in the school board race CCSB candidates do not run with party affiliation but their positions are generally known. In 2006 every Republican, including a popular sheriff, commissioners, delegates, congressional candidates were defeated. They stood in the shadow of a now very unpopular president. Darwin and Bibles were not central issues even in the school board race

29. Letter to editor, Maryland Independent, 9/06 The 2004 fracas was not forgotten. The letters to the editor flew fast and furious as election day 2006 approached “In her letter ‘Let Margaret Young Be Sad Someplace Else’ Barbara Allen accuses Margaret Young of pushing her own beliefs in intelligent design as opposed to Darwinian Evolution. Let me set the record straight. Mrs. Young is not pushing her agenda, she’s pushing mine. Who am I? I’m a Charles County taxpayer who voted for Mrs. Young and happens to care what Charles County children learn, especially my own. Darwin’s racist theory about superior vs. inferior species is not only garbage, but can’t be talked about at the human level without spawning hate-crime legislation. I am proud of those on the school board who have been willing to stand up against those peddling their religion of secular humanism along with all its racism, bigotry and immorality. Darwinism can’t be defended and its racist implications shouldn’t be tolerated.” Bill Green 9/06.

30. “Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town” La Plata MD is Dover PA and Dover PA is Dayton TN. Hillsboro of Inherit the Wind portrayed 1926 Dayton TN. Hillsboro of Inherit the Wind portrayed 1926 Dayton TN. 2010 is 2004 is 1926. In many respects, they are interchangeable American towns and they are interchangeable American times. In many respects, they are interchangeable American towns and they are interchangeable American times.

31. BIO 1020 Zoology Non-majors Non-majors Terminal, both first and last college science course Terminal, both first and last college science course ~80% Female ~80% Female Problem-solving laboratory Problem-solving laboratory

32. “Black Box” ENSI / SENSI

33. The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science Policy--Report from a Nobel Symposium. Pergamon Press, Elmsford, N.Y. Dorothy Nelkin, Science as a Source of Political Conflict “On similar grounds, fundamentalists take issue with the teaching of evolutionary biology in public schools. They feel that it intrudes on their religious beliefs and demand and that schools provide “equal time” for creation theory. They are a sufficiently powerful force that many educators, biologists, and publishers view their demands as a serious threat to science education. Even fundamentalists who seek to have the Biblical account of creation taught in the public schools, present themselves as scientists and claim that “creation theory” is a scientific alternative to “evolution theory.”

34. The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science Policy—Report from a Nobel Symposium. Pergamon Press, Elmsford, N.Y. Question #5 Some people argue that the religious concept of special creation (the account of creation presented in the Book of Genesis of the Judeo-Christian Bible) should be taught in biology classes as an alternative to the scientific theory of Darwinian evolution. Many people agree that this seems “fair.” Take a different approach to this debate: Discuss whether you think it is “fair” that the concept of Darwinian evolution should be taught in churches.

35. Among other things… an inherently First Amendment question Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

37. Results N=64 No=61% Yes=31% ?=1% Danielle’s preliminary interpretation of two classes… Class 2 But further mining of the data…….

38. Student Results N=64No=61% Yes=38%?=1% Occasional kernels of Falwell, Huxley, Hitchens, Chesterton, Pascal, and Homer (Simpson) Collectively the students expressed the range of arguments associated with this debate.

39. The Outlier: Category 0  Personal Undistrust  I personally do not think it matters, it’s a private matter of personal belief, and although people are aware that there are several possibilities of evolution, none of them are proven 100% true.  Some people may think that scientific theories are pointless… Undistrust is a negative trust, but insufficient to make definite conclusions in the reasoning process. (a version of Darwinian caveat emptor) “Why do you guys make such a big deal over this?” Undistrust is a negative trust, but insufficient to make definite conclusions in the reasoning process. (a version of Darwinian caveat emptor) “Why do you guys make such a big deal over this?”

40. The outlier might not lie so far out... During the "Scope's Monkey Trial (Scopes v State, 1926), Under examination by Clarence Darrow, Wm Jennings Bryan said: "I do not think about what I do not think about."

41. The Outlier may not lie so far out  Personal Undistrust  On the Showtime television program Bullshit! Penn Jillette (2003) says: “Everyone who needs to believe in evolution… does.” William Jennings Bryan and Penn Jillette stand on polar opposite sides of the debate but there is a sentiment expressed here that we found, anecdotally, to be common, i.e.: Why does anyone find it necessary to have this debate at all? This is sometimes linked with versions of Pascal’s Wager. The debate is a silly one intellectually because, in their minds, the issue is already decided and the other side is silly.  The problem, of course is that sincere people, e.g. most evangelicals and most biologists, on either side of the issue consider the opposing view to be absurd.

42. Category 1: Devout Rejection: “I do not think that Darwinian evolution should be taught in churches. I also do not think it should be taught in schools. Darwinian evolution should be discussed in churches so that people will be aware of what is being taught to those who are in school and those who do not believe in God, but it should not be taught in any church of the Lord.” Do NOT teach Darwin anywhere, except perhaps for the purpose of warning parishioners what the schools are up to. This illustrates the conspiracy theory opinion.

43. Devout Rejection* Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, kingdom halls and other places of worship are “houses of god.” Those are supposed to be sacred places to worship truth and god. We do not go to these places to learn about unfaiths, or things we do not believe in. Genesis teaches that God created the earth, the heavens, everything that lives on earth in the sea and in heaven. Going to places of worship is to build faith and to learn more about God. It is not a place to learn things you do not believe or have faith in. In a place of worship you do learn or take in knowledge of some of the things in the world so you can be guarded against them but you don’t study them as if that’s what you’re trying to become. Darwinism is the complete opposite than what the bible teaches and states there is no god. No it should not be taught in a place of worship. *This student is a late twenties early thirties year old CARPENTER !

44.  OP at ACOC: Many biblical literalists insist that creationism be taught in biology classes in the USA. In that everyone already knows the Genesis creation account, I propose, as a matter of fairness, that Darwinian evolution, which most Americans DO NOT understand, be required to be taught and studied in all American churches? For the sake of this discussion, disregard the application of the First Amendment's "Establishment" and "Free Exercise" clauses. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

45. The ACOC chat room milieu tended to be livelier

46. For example…  Regarding Richard Dawkins: Who the hell is this idiot and why does he deserve all these posts. Hell, the Pope didn't get all these posts and even when he admitted that he smoked dope. Or was that just Ringo? Anyway, what the hell?  Regarding an editorial by Patrick Buchannan: Nothing new here, same fundamentalist crap.. In keeping with the moronic theme of guilt by association put forth in the article: pat buchanan wrote this article. Pat buchanan is a Jew hater. Therefore whoever agrees with this article is obviously a Jew hater.. You bigots!

47.  Debate format  Both passion and logic are common  Rancor, ridicule and “flaming” not uncommon  Topic moderated by a bright Catholic gent  Who locked it after 8 days and 147 posts  Reasons for locking not stated; posts became quite ad hominem

48. `  Darwiniacs, The A-Team, Presumptuous Prick, *F* off, racist.  Sarcasm is an appropriate response to absurdity.  Pearls before swine. Pagan.  Origin Of Species thumpers  This is a joke right?? Probably involved handling snakes and drinking poison.  "disregard the scientific method and the fact that evolution has never been observed...“  this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he said and you can decide to join him if you wish  My church discussed and accepted evolution from the pulpit. Unitarian? Unitarian? Satanic. Satanic.

49. Devout Rejection and Conspiracy  Windfall: To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish Atheism as a state religion. The consequence of overzealous application of the Establishment Clause to exclude creationism would be establishment of Atheism as the state religion. “Darwinism =Atheism” therefore teaching Darwinism = Establishment. The consequence of overzealous application of the Establishment Clause to exclude creationism would be establishment of Atheism as the state religion. “Darwinism =Atheism” therefore teaching Darwinism = Establishment.  Matt: I think you've just hit upon the real agenda here. Matt is the ACOC “grassy knollist.” He frequently equates Darwinism with Atheism and is among many who imply that biologists are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy religion. Matt is the ACOC “grassy knollist.” He frequently equates Darwinism with Atheism and is among many who imply that biologists are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy religion.

50. Devout Rejection Devout Rejection Marcus: So let's ignore the fact that it would be illegal? That's almost as intellectually honest as most other discussions on evolution, which are usually prefaced with "disregard the scientific method and the fact that evolution has never been observed...“

51. SweetPea: “simple, just say [in church that] this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he said and you can decide to join him if you wish I can teach that”

52. Each In Its Place Student: Sure! Well really, actually as much as I would like it to be taught in churches, no. I don’t think it should be. Just as I believe creationism (or any other religious belief-system creation story) should have no place in a science classroom. Church is a place to practice and celebrate a certain type of ritual belief and knowledge. It is something most people partake by choice and there should be no reason to force teaching on them in their place of worship that doesn’t jive with their creation story. Church isn’t really a place for empirical thought anyway. There is a certain level of politeness and craving for conflict resolution expressed by many students. The anonymity of ACOC and the debate format often causes a devolution into “flaming.”

53. Voices of reason? / Seeking compromise?  Finally, and perhaps most astonishingly, Genesis doesn't say how God created life. So who's to say that God didn't use so-called evolution processes to create life? Indeed, the ongoing evolution v. creationism feud seems to be a modern day version of the infamous, mindless Hatfield-McCoy feud.  I don't believe it's an either/or proposition Jane. Plenty of christians also accept the theory of evolution. My comment was directed at those who bundle Darwin - and science generally - with the antichrist.

54. Yes, why don't we just focus on Hoyle. But not with you. You're a moron. Yes, why don't we just focus on Hoyle. But not with you. You're a moron. And you keep saying you know philosophy, so why should i explain Aristotle? Would you like me to explain why 2 plus 2 equals 4, as well? And you keep saying you know philosophy, so why should i explain Aristotle? Would you like me to explain why 2 plus 2 equals 4, as well? Now, you're being an ass-hat. I laid out the entire argument with numbers and you mumbled some unsupported generalizations. If you think that long post was "duh, that's crazy talk," then go play with yourself. You sound crazier by the post. If you can't man up, then shut up. Now, you're being an ass-hat. I laid out the entire argument with numbers and you mumbled some unsupported generalizations. If you think that long post was "duh, that's crazy talk," then go play with yourself. You sound crazier by the post. If you can't man up, then shut up. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume you are serious and intellectually honest. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume you are serious and intellectually honest. Oh that's real generous since you've been dangling on the top branch of the stupid- tree since the thread started.

55.  Getting back to "establishment" we would need to know what it means to "establish" a religion. Our forefathers came from Britain which had a history of religious persecution (Bloody Mary et al) and this clause was to expressly prohibit those things from happening. Not to say that every state office should state that there is no God. To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish Atheism as a state religion.

56. Sarcasm and Ridicule are Frequent at ACOC Cephei: On one condition, I think we should start with where all matter and energy come from, perhaps starting with electroweak baryogenesis first. Then...we could move on to parallel universes...oh yeah, perhaps dive into the physics behind string theory on Wednesday night after choir rehearsal. SweetPea: just kill God and be done with it.............we are all accidents and here by chance Zach: Religious fanatics do a fine job of killing their own God without our help.

57.  Getting back to "establishment" we would need to know what it means to "establish" a religion. Our forefathers came from Britain which had a history of religious persecution (Bloody Mary et al) and this clause was to expressly prohibit those things from happening. Not to say that every state office should state that there is no God. To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish Atheism as a state religion.

58. Reply to Conspiracy Theory  Zach: Although there are a lot of unknowns about abiogenesis, there are a lot of knowns. It is not a vacant, empty field of science where no progress can be made, hypotheses formed, and tested, at least to a degree. The problem is, you won't get that information here. It's lengthy and complicated, and full of big words. The work of scientists in the field of abiogenesis is kept secret and is hidden in books.  The Beginnings of Life, Bastian, H Die Hypotheses Uber Der Ursprung Des Lebens, Pryer, W.T. Les Bases Physiques De La Vie, Leduc, S. The Origin and Evolution of Life, Osborn, H Proishkhozhddenie Zhisni, Oparin, A The Origin of Life, Haldane, J. The Physical Basis of Life, Bernal, J. D. The Origin of Life, Oparin, A. The Emergence of Life: From Chemical Origins to Synthetic Biology, Luigi Luisi, Pier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zach probably a biologist. He is also an atheist. He posts huge replies with citations to web and text sources. They are largely ignored and ridiculed.

59. Windfall: Your still missing the point. Churches can preach whatever they want. That's the whole purpose of having a church. The government is the one literally forcing the theory of evolution on the children of America. Do you think the government should be allowed to force churches to preach other things they don't believe as well? How about forcing churches to "teach" about "man made global warming" while you are at it? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- School is mandatory, church is optional.

60. Matt: Children are required by law to attend school. They are not required to attend church. This is fallacious logic. Using the same twisted logic: If California teaches six year olds about perverted sexual practices under the guise of sex education we should also teach How to be a Homo 101 in six grade Sunday School class. No. Notta. --------------------------------------------------------- School is mandatory, church is optional embellished with an analogy

61. Zach: You are not applying the same standard. There is empirical evidence for evolution. There is no empirical evidence for God. None that the earth is 6,000 years old. None that all life was created within six 24 hour days. None that it was all wiped out in a global flood. None that it radiated outward after that flood from the Ararat Mountains. None that any of the miracles described in the bible ever actually occurred. None that miracles happen today. If the only evidence for evolution was unverifiable personal testimony, I would be equally skeptical of the theory. “If evolution were what creationists think it is, I would not believe it either.” Dawkins???

62. Elvis: I'm all for it. Origin Of Species thumpers don't do well when directly challenged, thus their insistence that other views be made illegal. I assume that when we allow you into our churches you will reciprocate in the public schools? On a side note, I doubt that the "Many biblical literalists insist that creationism be taught in biology classes" aspect of your challenge is even true. I've not heard of anyone insisting that Genesis be taught as fact in public schools. I have heard people asking that alternative theories be discussed. What'samatta, you afraid ideas? Billeter: And what, pray tell, do you think the alternative theories might be?? You know, list two or three. Elvis: I can't list two or three but there are a growing number of secular ID/Darwin skeptic scientists that Darwinists have not been able to answer. Elvis: I answered your OP and suddenly I'm obligated to take whatever quiz you assign me? How bout you make a list of shut the hell up? illustrates the argument that I.D. is not really the Christian God, wink, wink, but might be aliens from outer space.

63. Windfall: I know this is mostly in jest, however, forcing schools to present alternate theories that can't be disproven isn't such a bad thing. 1. Children are forced to go to school by the state. 2. Schools are forced to teach evolution as a theory for the diversity of life. 3. As evolution is one possible theory, alternate theories are presented. A. No one is forced to go to any church by the state. B. Churches teach specific religions where it is unnecessary to teach all religions. on edit: I think most Christians object to evolution being taught as a theory for the CREATION of life, which scientifically it doesn't cover. Although it assumes random beginnings. Windfall understands the difference between evolution and biogenesis and Big Bang. Many posters on the Creationism side conflate the three. Sometimes this is an extension of the strategy to divert the argument from well established scientific ideas to less well established ones. Macro v micro; Freidrich Wohler…

64. The College Of Southern Maryland Belize (formerly British Honduras) San Salvador Isl, Galapagos San Salvador Isl, Galapagos (formerly James Island)

65. Verhey’s Study  Group 1: Icons of Evolution by Wells: Attacks evolution and is sympathetic to ID Icons of Evolution by Wells: Attacks evolution and is sympathetic to ID The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins: Supports evolution. The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins: Supports evolution. Icons of Obfuscation by Tamzek: An Online refutation of Wells and the Process of science Icons of Obfuscation by Tamzek: An Online refutation of Wells and the Process of science  Group 2: Read and Discussed The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature: Read and Discussed The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature: An evolutionary exploration of sexual selection an sexuality  61% in Group 1reported some change in their beliefs; most of these students were initially sympathetic to creationist explanations and moved toward greater acceptance of evolution. Only 21% of students in Group 2 reported change in their beliefs.

66. Active Learning  The constructivist, active learning approach has been tested and shown to produce significant change in problem-solving abilities and sophistication of thought.  If students attack the controversy head on the gains are measurably increased.  Discussing Creationism/I.D. may be best way to achieve desired outcomes, i.e. expanded abilities of sophisticated problem solving. And that’s what college is all about. And that’s what college is all about.

67. Active Learning  SOTL  ENSI / SENSI ENSI / SENSI ENSI / SENSI  Verhey’s Study Verhey’s Study Verhey’s Study  Nelson’s Editorial Nelson’s Editorial Nelson’s Editorial

68. Another forum drifted into the realm of Dr. Seuss illustrating that some questions simply have no suitable answers  Poster A: The goat is the greatest of all time. Goat.  Poster B: Demi wrote a goat gloat. weird? I would not read it in a boat; I would not read it in a moat; I will not speak it thru my throat; I will not write it in a note; I would not read it while eating an orange... Your turn.