1. Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering Raising the Bar through Education and Licensure

2. Putting 10 pounds of stuff in a 5-pound bag. What's wrong with ASCE's new policy on engineering education, what's right about it, and what might we do about it?

3. Today’s Schedule 1.Review ASCE Revised Policy 465 2.How it came about – what’s good about it 3.What’s wrong with it 4.Perkins’ ideas

4. ASCE Policy 465 ADOPTED OCTOBER 2001 The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) supports the concept of the Master’s degree or Equivalent as a prerequisite for licensure and the practice of civil engineering at a professional level. ADOPTED OCTOBER 1998 The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) supports the concept of the Master’s degree as the First Professional Degree for the practice of civil engineering at a professional level.

5. Non-Terminal Graduate Degree (for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) 30 semester credits of acceptable graduate level course work beyond that required for the baccalaureate degree

6. History Is This a New Issue? “Is it not time we should agree that a professional man [woman] cannot be produced in four years, but that an accredited civil engineering training must be definitely post graduate, with a broad undergraduate training as a pre-requisite?” Carlton S. Proctor, 1932 (ASCE President 1952)

7. Discussion of formal education beyond baccalaureate degree 1960 1990 1985 1979 1974 1995 Member Comments Image Compensation Public Health, Safety, & Welfare

8. “Slippage” Reduction in Credits Compensation Professional Skills Development Broader Formal Education Leadership Preparation Appeal To Youth Management by Non-Engineers Changing Systems 2. Motivations for Change

9. “Slippage”

10. 1800 1900 CE is a Learned Art CE is a Profession with a 4-Year Degree 1816-25 Erie Canal is “First Engineering School” Once a Leader... Law 1- 3 years Medicine 1-4 years

11. A Leader No Longer Medicine Law Pharmacy Architecture Accounting Occupational Therapy Civil Engineering 98765432109876543210 Years of Formal Education 1900 1920 1950 198020002010 Civil Engineering

12. R e d u c t i o n i n C r e d i t H o u r s

13. Trend in Reduced Total Credit-Hours 120 130 140 150 1925195019752000 Year Credits

14. Compensation

15. Doctor Pharmacist Occupational Therapist Accountant Architect Civil Engineer Dentist Lawyer Optometrist Perceived Value: Starting GS Grades

16. Median General Schedule Grade 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 19671997 Lawyer Pharmacy Optometrist Accountant O. T.* Civil Engr Dentist Nurse * Occupational Therapist Medicine Civil Engr 15 14 13 12 11 10 Median GS Grades: 1967 & 1997

17. Average Yearly Starting Salaries 1990-2000 (NACE*) Curriculum19902000 Change Change in $ % Increase Civil Engineering28,13637,9329,79635 Accounting26,39136,71010,31939 Occupational Therapy 25,64443,50017,85670 Pharmacy36,72864,71727,98976 *National Association of Colleges & Employers

18. Leadership Preparation

19. Management by Non-Engineers

20. Management by Non-Engineers State Secretaries of Departments of Transportation

21. Broader Formal Education

22. From Mann, 1918 a.But that, "engineering education needed curricular integration and a health dose of managerial and "'humanistic' courses" because "ultimately the engineer is " the creator of machines and the interpreter of their human significance." b.He thought it was great that some universities could put "administrative" (management) courses in their curriculum.

23. 1.1944, ASCE and predecessor of ASEE found 2."Civil engineering graduates of the previous decade were deficient in their ability to communicate orally and in writing and had little interest in public affairs?

24. Appeal to Youth

25. Declining Appeal to Youth Professions (1) High Opinion Careers “worth the extra effort” High school (2) College (3) High School (4) College (5) Doctors 78%85%90%92% Lawyers 45%38%71%77% Teachers 66%83%70%81% Engineers 58%72%68%35% Accountants/ CPA 30%36%40%47% 2000 Sample size: 1000 high school students, 1174 college students

26. Changing Systems

27. Professional Skills Development

28. “Slippage” Reduction in Credits Compensation Professional Skills Development Broader Formal Education Leadership Preparation Appeal To Youth Management by Non-Engineers Changing Systems SUMMARY: Motivations for Change

29. ASCE Policy 465 (Adopted by the BOD on October 9, 2001) The American Society of Civil Engineers supports the concept of the Master’s degree or Equivalent as a prerequisite for licensure and the practice of civil engineering at a professional level.

30. Masters or Equivalent (MOE) PURPOSE: Increase breadth & depth of formal education FLEXIBILITY:  Choice of focus  Choice of timing  Choice of access QUALITY: Maintain rigor

31. Engineering MOE’s (for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) 1.MEngr or MS in CIVIL ENGINEERING 2.MEngr or MS in OTHER ENGINEERING 3.PhD in CIVIL ENGINEERING 4.PhD in OTHER ENGINEERING

32. 1.MS in SCIENCE 2.MS in ARCHITECTURE 3.MS in CITY & URBAN PLANNING 4.MASTER of BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION MASTER OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION 5.PhD in SCIENCE Possible Non-Engineering MOE’s (for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE)

33. The Board has established the -- T ask C ommittee on the A cademic P rerequisites for P rofessional P ractice (TCAP 3 ) 4. Implementation

34. -Jeff Russell (Chair) -Stu Walesh (Vice-Chair) -Rich Anderson -Norm Buehring -Angela Duncan -John Durrant -Jon Esslinger -Gerry Galloway -Brook Maples -Brian Parsons -Bobby Price -Tom Lenox TCAP 3 Committee (practitioners, academics, younger members)

35. When? Will not happen overnight. Will require cooperative effort. (Accountants have 20 year plan for 150 credits for CPA)

36. Summary HISTORY — we have been here before. MOTIVATIONS FOR CHANGE — we need to move ahead. ASCE POLICY 465 — we have more specificity. IMPLEMENTATION — we, including a broad set of stakeholders, have a lot of important work ahead of us.

37. End of ASCE Slides They made a good case. What’s wrong with it Perkins ideas

38. Non-Terminal Graduate Degree (for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) 30 semester credits of acceptable graduate level course work beyond that required for the baccalaureate degree

39. Right 120 credits is inadequate for the professional practice of CE. Policy adds 30 credits to the 140 credit degree as well. Does not define what credits need be added. Wrong

40. Let’s look at those additional credits Practical matter of implementation

41. Avoid Controversy

42. Directions

43. From UAF CEE Advisory Board

45. What the Board said:

47. Needed Education

48. But Even 138 credit BS Lacks sufficient technical courses For professional practice

49. CE Sub-disciplines Structures Geotech Water Environmental Transportation Construction

50. Extra Courses Required

51. Extra Courses Required - Environmental 1.Environmental 1&2 (already) 2.Chemical, biological, and physical process (6- 9) 3.Water chemistry and treatment (3) 4.Solid waste (3), 5.Pollution control (3) and 6.Laws (3) Total 15 – 21 more

52. Extra Courses Required - Construction 1.Cost estimating (3), 2.CE constructions (3), 3.Project management (3), 4.Contract law (3), 5.Human Resources, Labor Law (3) plus 6.Geotech or structures (3-6). Total 15-18 more credits

53. So we have

54. Not 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag How about 15 pounds of stuff in a 10 pound bag?

55. Why change is hard? Always is. Need motivation for any change to happen. Let’s look at motivation of interested parties.

56. Motivation of Students Can get good job with current degree Full-time two-year MS does not pay Economics deceptive Based on 1999 NSPE salary survey

58. Full-time MS Two year MS paid $20K/year for two years, then starts at $43.7K, their third year post BS. BS for same times is paid, 38k, 41k, then 43.4k for their third year. Over 15 years post BS, the MS is about 8% worse off, NPV at i = 8%

59. Part-time MS Get MS at night Economics depends completely on valuation of free time. At $20/hr, their rate of pay, it is not economical At $13/hr, it is same as BS. Must value your free time at less than $13/hr for MS at night to “pay.”

60. Motivation of Employers Contrast with dentists –Each new dentist is a direct economic threat to practicing dentists –Pays to increase qualifications, raise the bar Most engineers are employees of other engineers –Why create labor shortage –If we train on the job, they are “ours”

61. Motivation of University University does not recognize engineering as a learned profession Does not consider engineering college or school to be a professional school different than Anthropology Department.

62. Motivation of Engineering Faculty Most have never had significant engineering employment outside of academia No rewards for teaching or professional service by faculty –Some by administration, not faculty Faculty rewards are for research and publication Professional employment, i.e., summers or consulting, is held in contempt

63. Motivation of Engineering Faculty, cont. No desire to expand enrollments beyond minimum Generally lack resources to teach what is required now Increasing offering frequency would require more resources.

64. Motivation of Administrators Would like to see enrollments increase But, First to increase requirements will loose students to departments/colleges/states that have lower requirements. CPA’s proved this.

65. Motivation of Professional Societies Would like to see prestige of profession increased But are convinced that their education was adequate “When I was an new engineer…” Firms will consider competitive position

66. AELS Board Can get PE with no engineering degree now. –ABET accredited B.S. degree in engineering technology –Non-ABET accredited B.S. degree in engineering –Course work in ABET accredited engineering degree curriculum - no degree (course work must include a minimum of three years of credit hours in an engineering curriculum (Huh?)

67. And more ABET –Stopped separate accreditation of five-year degrees long ago –ABET 2000 is moving in different direction NCEES –Will sell as many exams either way.

68. Lack of Motivation Students Employers Universities License Boards Societies

69. Nobody said this would be easy, or non-controversial

70. For new degree requirements to ever happen: Must define what we want, and What the public health and safety require. Must have system so that students get higher starting salaries Students must be worth more to employers Profession must demand

71. Here’s something that might work

72. Higher Math CE at UAF currently requires 135 credits Typical liberal arts graduate, 120 credits in four years. 150 for master’s So we are half way to a master’s already. Add the 5 to 7 more courses and we are over 150 credits. 5 courses is one semester.

73. So, both Requirements for discipline-specific courses, and University credits for MS can be met in one extra semester.

74. Add value Add 2 summer internship “courses” –list of topics –discussion and –industry advisor

75. See NCARB IDP National Council of Architectural Registration Boards Intern Development Program

76. Category A: Design & Construction Documents Minimum Training Units Required 1. Programming10 2. Site and Environmental Analysis 10 3. Schematic Design15 4. Engineering Systems Coordination 15 5. Building Cost Analysis10 6. Code Research15 7. Design Development40 8. Construction Documents135 9. Specifications & Materials Research 15 10. Documents Checking & Coordination 10 Total Training Units Required 350*

77. For 3-credits Meet in fall present data interact with other student fill in gaps.

78. Make all design courses into 600-level graduate courses Stack all 400-level “design” courses, –CE 425/625 Add “professional content” Stacked course would add material on communications, human element, public reaction, etc. May not directly relate to course content –5 to 10 hours, max.

79. Professional Require they pass the Civil EIT and Take the PE –must pass for “professional degree” Several state permit taking the PE immediately after graduation from a four-year degree –(Note, this is very different than getting the license, for which you still need the 3 or 4 years of experience.)

80. Academic Deal Leave current “four-year” degree on books, just as it is. Add a 120-credit non-ABET degree, perhaps, “BS in engineering science.” –Student opting for the MS will get the 120-credit degree in passing. –That starts the clock on the MS, admission to “graduate standing.” –The counting of the 30 post-BS credits.

81. Probably want 36 credits, post-BS –for 156 total.

82. Increased Value Student get “masters” in 5 months, so economics changes, –with only MS differential –probably favorable With summer jobs, increase starting salaries 5% or more Likewise having passed the PE exam Current 4 year students take 4.5 years Typical 4.5 years will take 5

83. What’s in the future?