Presentation on theme: "Are they really Equal? VS CAMUS"— Presentation transcript:
1 Are they really Equal? VS CAMUS It can be a little grey if you don’t have all the information.RBI has worked hard to develop a worry free INDUSTRIAL boiler design. Are you’re equals truly keeping up?
2 On the ‘outside’ it would seem so: CAMUS DYNAFLAMERBI FUTERA FUSIONCOPPER FIN DESIGNDOWN-FIRED CONCEPTFULL MODULATIONSTAINLESS STEEL CABINETSEFFICIENCY FROM 88% TO 92% PLUSMANTLE TYPE BURNERSMALL ‘FOOTPRINT’
3 A closer look though…. RBI FUTERA FUSION CAMUS DYNAFLAME THE IGNITION SYSTEM:The ignition system shall be a commercial / industrial design utilizing an interrupted spark ignition system independent of the main burner. The system shall provide UV flame monitoring (sensor eye) with 100% shut off upon failure during the trial for ignition period. The use of glow coil ignition systems shall not be permitted.CAMUS DYNAFLAME
4 A closer look though…. RBI FUTERA FUSION CAMUS DYNAFLAME Flame safeguard Control:The boiler shall be equipped with a Honeywell RM7800 series commercial / industrial flame safeguard system independent of the boiler sequencing controls. The flame safeguard shall be a solid state digital diagnostic control with a removable display screen. Control shall monitor run hours, faults, fault timing, and keep a minimum of the last 5 faults in history. Control shall continually monitor and display boiler status, and flame signal on a multi line LCD screen.RBI FUTERA FUSIONCAMUS DYNAFLAME
5 Complete Management ‘system’ on board! Modulation and Reset:The boiler shall be fully equipped with boiler management controls equal to HeatNet (A Mestek Company). Controls shall…networkableOutdoor reset, stand alone, network, 4-10ma or 0-10vdc signal acceptableOperate multiple boiler modulation on the highest efficiency curve (intercommunication required)Not third partyLog running errors and conditions continually.Firmware updateable through USB port and internet download.Communicate LonWorks, BacNet, and Modbus.Basic Tekmar single boiler modulation is not acceptable.Have hybrid technology to control various volume and efficiency type boilers.RBI FUTERA FUSIONCAMUS DYNAFLAMENot equal. No network. Simple Tekmar control cut into panel. Third party control, limited input. No point reporting outputs.Complete Management ‘system’ on board!
6 RBI FUTERA FUSION Monitor Safeties Analog Inputs Digital Input Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you!Monitor SafetiesAnalog InputsRBI FUTERA FUSIONDigital InputVFD SignalHeat Net LinkHand ShakeRelay OutputsControl Inputs
7 RBI FUTERA FUSION Domestic Hot Water Priority Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you!RBI FUTERA FUSIONMestek Made – Mestek SupportedManufactured in Westfield, MADomestic Hot Water PriorityOn board HeatNet and Modbus connectionsLow Fire Hold Switch‘U’ Shaped Socket for direct mounted protocessor moduleSupport for Dual Fuel OptionFlash Drive UpdateableControl Pro CompatibleSet point signal control (reduce points and external requirements).On board outdoor reset and night set back.Digital or AnalogLocal AND system pump coordination control.Combustion air damper Sequencing.Multi-boiler efficiency maximization.
8 RBI FUTERA FUSION SET POINT CONTROL OPTIONS INCLUDE: Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you!RBI FUTERA FUSIONMestek Made – Mestek SupportedManufactured in Westfield, MASET POINT CONTROL OPTIONS INCLUDE:Boiler to Boiler Communication – Heat NetMultiple Heat BandsAdd Boiler Delay TimingShed Boiler Delay TimingAdaptive Modulation – prevents short cyclingModulate Delay Time (Low Fire Hold)Mod Max – ‘till last boiler fire’Promote True Rotation (Sequencing)CONDITION MEMORIZATIONBMS full integration
9 Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you! RBI FUTERA FUSIONMin/Max VFD – Load Match (low fire); Input Adjustment (Elevation, Direct Vent)Log Entry – Troubleshoot and Diagnostic ToolRecords major activityMonitor Min Return TempHeat Exchanger Delta T (Limits to half fire)Fail Safe Mode – Member BoilersFirst Boiler mode – Set up to optimize proper VentingMin Boiler Off Time
10 Camus THIRD PARTY, NOT SELF MANUFACTURED NOR SELF SUPPORTED. Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you!CamusTHIRD PARTY, NOT SELF MANUFACTURED NOR SELF SUPPORTED.BOILER TO BOILER CANNOT MAXIMIZE MODULATION EFFICIENCYDOES NOT COMPLETELY INTEGRATE WITH BMS.VERY LIMITED INPUT/OUTPUT ABILITY.SIMILAR CONTROL USED ON OUR BASIC 85% HORIZONTAL DOMINATOR BOILER (APPRX. 50% OF THE COST OF A FUSION.)LONWORKS AND BACNET VERY DIFFICULT TO APPLY, CONDITION, WIRE AND INTEGRATE.
11 Still thinking “equal”? CAMUS DYNAFLAMERBI FUTERA FUSION
12 CONSTRUCTION - RBI FUTERA FUSION Condensing “Package”:The boiler shall be completely packaged and tested as a package by the factory. Boiler shall have the boiler ‘package’ listed and tested as per UL/CSA and ASME section IV standards. Each boiler shall be fire-tested as a package in the factory prior to shipment. Test report shall show all combustion settings at various points of modulation, as well as corresponding delta T. A single primary pump shall be supplied, sized, piped and wired within the manufacturers control sequence by the manufacturer. A three way tempering valve shall be piped and wired to allow for return temperatures as low as 40F directly to a single water inlet.The use of independent secondary heat exchangers and/or economizers will not be permitted.
13 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN - RBI FUTERA FUSION Fully packaged, means :Three way bypass valve keeps the primary heat exchanger at the required 140F (copper).Flow Switch (ILO LWCO)Primary pump sized for both the primary/secondary hX.ASME relief valve for ‘both’ primary/secondary HX.Approved T & P gauge.Vessel drain valves as required by OHIO code.“all factory provided, mounted, wired, and tested”
14 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN - RBI FUTERA FUSION Non-electric bypass valve set and mounted.All stainless steel jackets (no plastic tops)Single System inlet/outletSingle Primary pump mounted and wiredComplete ‘quick latch’ access to all heat exchangers.HeatNet on board and ready to goPallet jack fork lift ready!
15 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Can one boiler be everything to everybody? You do the math..Stack EconomizerDynaflame Modulation Non-Condensing boilerDynaflame Fully condensing boiler
16 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!All the ‘packaged’ items on the RBI already handle that so the boiler can be put in, and simply hooked up!
17 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!Rbi includes the non-electric thermostatic valve in their design.
18 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!Does this sound like a true condensing design? Let’s see Non-condensing can return 115F but condensing 130F?????
19 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!Absolutely untrue. We represent Cat. II and IV boilers that have NO minimum and some that have a 60F limit. It’s about design, not ‘official’ listing!
20 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!So, they give us the CHRM separate and ‘we’ have to protect it (flow and temp), shed the load with it, monitor temperatures and be responsible for any misapplication?Again, not a ‘packaged’ condensing boiler!
21 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!Finally, a drawing! Of course, this is typical.. Since you have to design and pipe it, I guess you can do it however you want. Bottom line is, you need to pipe both HX, and control the primary temperature. If you don’t.. Warranty is void!
22 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Experience Knows Better!
23 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual!Secondary HX in vent. add the flow switch, valves, and a second pump. Be sure to get the GPM from this HX and size the pump for it. Also add temp controls and sequencing.Below 140F, you better use a three way bypass system. Of course you need to design it and have it installed.Primary HX separate. Don’t forget 140F, 130F, 120F, or 115F… not sure which they really want but it’s up to you to keep it warm! Oh, and another primary pump!
24 Still thinking “equal”? CAMUS DYNAFLAMERBI FUTERA FUSION
25 So far we have some serious cost differences making your equal a ‘sure bet’! CAMUS DYNAFLAMERBI FUTERA FUSIONHoneywell RM7800 series with screen vs Fenwell control:Three way thermostatic bypass valve installed and designed:Heat net management vs. TekmarPrimary pump installed, sized, wired and controlled.Turbo pilot with UV scanner, ignition transformer vs. glow coil.Access panels with quick release latches:If you are the contractor, you have no choice!$ cost$ cost$ cost$ cost$ cost$ cost$ additional cost per boiler
26 Still, you’ll find some of the math won’t add up. Why? CAMUS DYNAFLAMERBI FUTERA FUSIONStill, you’ll find some of the math won’t add up. Why?Well, there will be a realization that all the equal products are far more expensive. Camus then had a ‘cap’ to bid up to.This is the result of the last 2000MBH condensing boiler design we bid vs Camus:$ For two boilers including freight, start up, they did NOT include factory labor warranty.$ For two boilers including freight, start up, warranty labor.NOTE THAT ‘COSTS’ ARE CALCULATED BEFORE ANY MARGINS REQUIRED BY THE REP, DISTRIBUTOR, OR WHOLESALER.
27 CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION On the ‘outside’ the contractor seemed to have saved $6, Had he not used this price on bid day, he could have lost the project. That’s only $3, per boiler.Problem is, the END USER sacraficed $5, per boiler in equipment, trim and features or a total of $10, over all. Was the investment wise?Additionally, chances are the contractor was not aware he had additional cost in piping, pumping, design work, trim and safety controls. That closes the gap very quickly.If the contractor didn’t know it, as an engineer you must know it because these items can easily slip by the submittal if you are not careful. The end user actually suffers from the very competition we think is healthy!
28 B: Lochinvar Intellifin RBI FUTERA FUSIONThe ‘real’ Equals“The basis of design shall be the RBI Fusion series packaged condensing boiler. Sizes, quantities and capacities as listed on the drawings.Acceptable equal manufacturers shall still meet the performance and intent of this specification completely. Installation must completed in accordance to the requirements of the manufacturer.Any additional cost incurred by using one of the following approved manufacturers shall be that of the installing contractor. This includes, but is not limited to venting, piping, electrical, and/or any needed as built drawings.In accordance with the above, you may provide a product equal to the requirements of this specification as manufactured by:”A: Aerco BenchmarkB: Lochinvar IntellifinC: Laars Rihos
29 RBI FUTERA FUSIONThe ‘real’ EqualsAllowing the Camus Dynaflame to be an acceptable equal to a packaged condensing boiler opens the door for the following:Any copper boiler manufacturer should be permitted to provide his ‘base’ boiler design with a separately shipped stack economizer.Base boilers should be allowed a light commercial residential flame safeguard and ignition system.Any form of boiler controls become acceptable because of the limitations of this equal product.