1. Roger Einbecker, Throws Coach Waubonsie Valley High School Aurora, IL
A-Z Clinic January 20, 2008
Roger Einbecker, Throws Coach
Waubonsie Valley High School
Aurora, IL

2. Send any post-clinic questions to reinbeck@ameritech.net
Current version of this presentation and accompanying videos and articles will be available on:
Send any post-clinic questions to
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

3. My Perspective I will be sharing: What resources I use
Pre-season plans
In-season plans
Training methods
Drills
Important aspects of technique
What works; what doesn’t work
What I want to try but haven’t had time
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

4. Background HS – Crete Monee HS 1969 Shot Put – 55’ Discus – 165’
College – Eastern Illinois University 1973
Shot Put – 49’ Discus – 156’ Hammer – 150’
Coaching – Waubonsie Valley HS 2005-present
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Einbecker - WVHS

5. Resources Utilized Abundance of training and coaching resources
Resources I Use:
- Books
The Throws Manual by George Dunn and Kevin McGill
The Complete Book of Throws, Jay Silvester, Editor
The Throws, Jess Jarver, Editor
NTCA Throws Handbook, James Peterson and Rob Lasorsa, Editors
The Path to Athletic Power by Boyd Epley
Explosive Lifting for Sports by Harvey Newton
The Complete Guide to Medicine Ball Training by Vern Gambetta and Steve Odgers
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

6. Resources Utilized - Videos John Powell Discus II
Shot Put with Brian Oldfield
Gold Medal Discus by Mac Wilkins
Discus Throw with Mike Buncic
Common Errors and Corrections: Discus with Brian Bedard
World Class T&F Series: Shot Put with Ron Backes
Common Errors and Corrections: Shot Put with Ralf Uebel (G)
Complete Throws by Larry Judge (
Basic Discus Throwing by Mark Mirabelli
2006 NTCA Clinic
2007 NTCA Clinic
Complete Olympic Lifting
Make sure and understand what level these resources are directed towards. Often, they target the elite thrower or lifter. Some judgment must be applied to make the proper adjustments for the high school athlete.
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

7. Resources Utilized Other
Long & Strong Throwers Journal, Glenn Thompson, Editor (
Track Coach (
“The Ring” (
John Powell’s Throwing Camp
National Throws Coaches Association Conference
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

8. Auditory – learn by hearing; Bedard “swoosh, ta, ta”
Types of Learners
Visual – learn by seeing; I use video multiple times in the preseason and at every meet
Auditory – learn by hearing; Bedard “swoosh, ta, ta”
Kinesthetic – learn by doing; drills
Determine which works best for an athlete
Be prepared to use all these methods
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

9. Powell camp concentrates on drills only
Lots of drills to use
Powell camp concentrates on drills only
They use Power Balls, not throwing implements
Drills can be done with tires, Power Bags, pipes, etc.
Athletes focus on technique, not throwing
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

10. Best video system I’ve ever seen – Jerry Clayton of Auburn Camcorder
Use of Videotaping
Best video system I’ve ever seen – Jerry Clayton of Auburn
Camcorder
Tivo TV
I video every meet and at practice every 2-3 weeks
Transfer video to portable DVD and review with each athlete weekly
Persistent technique problems get video analysis more frequently
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

11. Sayings to Remember
"I took 10,000 throws a year because as a young thrower I met the world record holder, Ludwig Danek. Danek, who later became Olympic Champion, told me he took 10,000 throws a year. I decided I'd better up my throwing." John Powell
An hour of employing bad technique takes 35 hours to undo. Mac Wilkins
What happens at the back of the circle will happen at the front.
A 2% mistake at the beginning of the throw can be magnified into an 8% error by the end of the throw. Don Babbitt
You are 100% responsible for what you say and you are 100% responsible for what people hear. Bob Berkman (business coach)
As a coach, you need to be able to say or do the same thing 3 or 4 different ways. Each athlete has a different “hearing” or learning. Effective communication to everyone requires variability.
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

12. What I Learned At Golden West
Speed Kills!
The Big Guys – Tabor, Tabor, Einbecker, Nagengast
The Bigger Guys – Clarke, Ayers, Draper, Baker
The Little Guys – Bryant, Johnson
The results:
Luke Bryant 205’ 10”
Derek Johnson 191’ 7”
The stats:
Bryant – 6’ 3” 190# BP-240 Sqt-355 Hang Clean-225
Johnson – 6’3” 195# BP-260 Front Squat -300x4
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

13. What I Learned At Golden West
Terminology
First Double Leg Support
First Single Leg Support
Second Single Leg Support
Second Double Leg Support
Measurement Points
Starting point – Wind up is complete
Point #1 – R foot touchdown (second single leg support)
Point #2 – L foot touchdown (second double leg support)
Point #3 – release of discus
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Einbecker - WVHS

14. What I Learned At Golden West
Video analysis at 30 frames per second
Frame count starts when windup is complete
Point # Frames to R Foot Touchdown
Point # Frames to L Foot Touchdown
Point # Frames to Release
Point 1 to Point 2 Difference
Point 2 to Point 3 Difference
Point 1 to Point 3 Difference
Greg Draper 33 41 47 8 6 14
Brett Einbecker 29 34 5 7 12
Sean Tabor 31 38 44 13
Steven Ayers 36 10
Clay Baker
Jordan Clarke 32 37 43 11
Derek Johnson 40 4
Luke Bryant 25
Geoff Tabor 35 9
Average
30.56
36.22
42.11
5.67
5.89
11.56
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Einbecker - WVHS

15. What I Learned At Golden West
Conclusions
Bryant is over 10% faster through the ring than every thrower
Bryant fastest to right foot touchdown with the longest windup by nearly 20%
Bryant, G. Tabor and Ayers 20% faster from R to L foot touchdown – 5 frames
Jay Silvester – 5 frames
John Powell – 3 frames
cantilever versus slide/skate
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Einbecker - WVHS

16. What is The Right Balance?
Jimmie Pacifico – 5’ 9” 220# 71’ 6.5” ’ 1”
BP-520 S-850 DL-800
Ryan Whiting – 6’ 3” 270# 70’ 0” ’ 9”
BP-430 S-525x5 PC-365 SL-DL-585x3
Technique vs. Strength vs. Speed – How do you achieve the proper balance?
I’m still working on this problem.
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

17. 2005-6 Training Plan I used George Dunn’s plan as outlined in his book
I create weekly training plans for each athlete throughout the entire season
We max about every 4 weeks; basis for Dunn’s plan
Pre-season: lift - 3 days; med balls, plyos, sprints, drills - 2 days
Use the Throwers Quadrathlon to test athletes 3 or 4 times a year; it is a good gauge and it is fun
In-season (indoors): lift – 3 days; throw – 2 days (facilities an issue); had simulated “meets” weekly for first month (draws out fouls)
In-season (outdoors): lift – 2 days (maintain); throw every day; outdoor season too short to not throw discus every day
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

18. 2005-6 Training Plan What worked
Much better than general conditioning used in prior years
Good increases in strength levels for most athletes
What didn’t work
Not enough lifting
Not enough gains from 2 days of med balls, plyos, sprints
Lifting plan needed more variability
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

19. Training Plan
I used Tony Ciarelli’s plan with a bit of Louie Simmons thrown in.
I create weekly training plans for each athlete throughout the entire season
We max about every 5-6 weeks
Pre-season: lift - 4 days; med balls, plyos, sprints, drills - 1 day
Use the Throwers Quadrathlon to test athletes 3 or 4 times a year; it is a good gauge and it is fun
In-season (indoors): lift – 3 days; throw – 2 days (facilities an issue); had simulated “meets” weekly for first month (draws out fouls)
In-season (outdoors): lift – 2 days (maintain); throw every day; outdoor season too short to not throw discus every day
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

20. 2006-7 Training Plan What worked
Better strength gains although physically a very demanding workout
No perceived loss in speed, agility
What didn’t work
Still need more variability in lifts
Some athletes were left behind; lifting program too demanding
This program may be better suited to a longer training day
Simmons stuff worked in squats but not in bench (bands, chains, different set/rep schemes)
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

21. 2006-7 Training Plan A bit about Tony Ciarelli
Very accomplished strength and throws coach (
Conducts a high end throws clinic in February
Usually very open with his information (frequent poster on goheavy.com and The Ring)
Has an All Star line up of alumni
His entire training program is in the appendix
Good article about Tony in LSTJ and is available online (
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

22. Training Plan
I used Tony Ciarelli’s plan with a bit of Louie Simmons (squats only) and Jud Logan (set/rep schemes) thrown in
More lifting variability; avoid repetition/accommodation/pattern overload; created a master lift sheet
I create weekly training plans for each athlete thru the entire season
We max about every 5-6 weeks
Pre-season: lift - 4 days; med balls, plyos, sprints, drills - 1 day; SOME SPEED WORK EVERY DAY
Use the Throwers Quadrathlon to test athletes 2 or 3 times a year
In-season (indoors): lift – 3 days; throw – 2 days (facilities an issue); had simulated “meets” weekly for first month (draws out fouls)
In-season (outdoors): lift – 2 days (maintain); throw every day; outdoor season too short to not throw discus every day
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

23. Peaking
Ciarelli – plan 1 rep weeks to coincide with conference, sectional and state meets; eliminates full lifts
Logan – 25 x 1 scheme
John Smith – no back squats 21 days out; no heavy cleans 14 days out; no upper body 7 days out
Bill Caton, M-F Athletic – “It takes 5-7 days to recover from a 1 rep max (complete neural recruitment) ”
Talk about Brett and Kristin Constantine
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

24. More “Functional Training” Training with a purpose
What I Want To Try
More “Functional Training”
Training with a purpose
Used successfully by Hoffa, Pfister (YouTube video)
Kettlebells
Strongman events (e.g., tire flip, stone lifts, farmers walk)
Charles Poliquin methods
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

25. 10,000 Throws a Year???
This is a major challenge for HS discus throwers
Outdoor season is 7 weeks; 42 practice days
Average of 15 meet days/year
Assuming no weather problems, 27 days * 50 throws = 1300 total throws
Problem compounds when you have many throwers and few rings
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

26. Technique – The Rotational Start
Sets up everything
Good posture
Good balance
Not too much bend at waist or pike
Discus
Shift weight over pivot leg
Some throwers may need to “cheat” to the left side at the start
Lean in with lead hip; creates the most linear acceleration
Lead arm stays inside lead leg
Maintain “X”
Drive through backward “7” (Powell vs. Silvester)
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

27. Technique – The Rotational Start
Powell Silvester
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Einbecker - WVHS

28. Ring & Sector Adjustments
Shot Put
Feet
Inches
Radius
1 Degree
5 Degrees
10 Degrees
3.5
0.73
3.67
7.33 30
6.28
31.42
62.83 40
8.38
41.89
83.78 50
10.47
52.36
104.72 60
12.57
125.66
Discus
4.125
0.86
4.32
8.64
100
20.94
209.44
120
25.13
251.33
140
29.32
146.61
293.22
160
33.51
167.55
335.10
180
37.70
188.50
376.99
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS

29. Appendix Tony Ciarelli Workout Schedule
Brian Bedard – Rotational Shot put article
Jud Logan – Maximizing Gains with Rep Schemes
Assorted Posts from The Ring
Ball crawl video
1/20/2008
Einbecker - WVHS