Talking with a shared purpose: applying a narrative approach to career guidance interviews Hazel Reid Centre for Career & Personal Development

Developing narrative thinking What is it? What is it? Why is it worth considering? Why is it worth considering? What are the benefits? What are the benefits? What are the limitations? What are the limitations? Could it fit within existing models? Could it fit within existing models? Would it work in a range of contexts? Would it work in a range of contexts? How do I do it? How do I do it?

Constructivist and Narrative approaches Post-modern, post-structuralist and all that stuff! Post-modern, post-structuralist and all that stuff! The move from 20 th to 21 st century thinking – a focus on meaning The move from 20 th to 21 st century thinking – a focus on meaning Established approaches found ‘wanting’ Established approaches found ‘wanting’ Familiar or a new way of thinking? Familiar or a new way of thinking? Development within counselling Development within counselling And career counselling And career counselling

Why is it worth considering? Stories are about events, patterns, insights into how we construct a view of ourselves in the past, present and future Stories are about events, patterns, insights into how we construct a view of ourselves in the past, present and future Deeper understanding, better exploration, action that is likely to be more useful for the individual Deeper understanding, better exploration, action that is likely to be more useful for the individual Resonates with a multicultural approach – sensitive to the importance of the individual’s world view / frame of reference Resonates with a multicultural approach – sensitive to the importance of the individual’s world view / frame of reference Guidance is not a neutral activity - helps us to consider aspects of power Guidance is not a neutral activity - helps us to consider aspects of power It’s also interesting, exciting, motivating and engaging – for both parties. It’s also interesting, exciting, motivating and engaging – for both parties.

Potential benefits Collaborative approach Collaborative approach Can avoid taking a deficit view of the person Can avoid taking a deficit view of the person Places meaning in the foreground Places meaning in the foreground Recognises the importance of context Recognises the importance of context ‘Back swing’ ( Amundson) - works towards a ‘better’ story ‘Back swing’ ( Amundson) - works towards a ‘better’ story Moves from identifying the problem, exploring interests and options to agreed action (sound familiar?) Moves from identifying the problem, exploring interests and options to agreed action (sound familiar?) The reality-test of career/life narrative work with a ‘client’ needs to recognise that action occurs in an interactive world. It is this acknowledgment of the need for negotiating action that moves a narrative approach out of the trap of a backward looking past.

Possible limitations Abstract and esoteric – unconnected to the day- to-day realities of practice? Abstract and esoteric – unconnected to the day- to-day realities of practice? Too focused on understanding? Too focused on understanding? Too dependent on therapeutic counselling? Too dependent on therapeutic counselling? Sounds expensive – time? Sounds expensive – time? You say the approach is ‘interesting, exciting, motivating and engaging’, but how do I do it? You say the approach is ‘interesting, exciting, motivating and engaging’, but how do I do it?

Fit with existing models Egan’s approach is outdated? Egan’s approach is outdated? Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water! Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water! The 3 stage model has a simplicity that has some elegance The 3 stage model has a simplicity that has some elegance A framework – recognise its limitations A framework – recognise its limitations Established career theory continues to have relevance within an integrated approach Established career theory continues to have relevance within an integrated approach

And a range of contexts? Work with young people Work with young people Adults Adults Cultural groups Cultural groups ‘Challenging clients’ ‘Challenging clients’ In response to the changing practical and political context, constructivist approaches offer new perspectives for career interventions, including working in holistic settings In response to the changing practical and political context, constructivist approaches offer new perspectives for career interventions, including working in holistic settings Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won’t! Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won’t!

Narrative thinking – applied to careers interviews Dangers of the cookbook approach Dangers of the cookbook approach Mining counselling approaches Mining counselling approaches A different way of thinking about the ‘client’ A different way of thinking about the ‘client’ The practitioner needs the kind of respectful curiosity that asks: What other voices are present in those stories? How does the client position themselves through the meaning they place on their experiences? The practitioner needs the kind of respectful curiosity that asks: What other voices are present in those stories? How does the client position themselves through the meaning they place on their experiences? Externalising conversations: naming the problem Externalising conversations: naming the problem More than one way to tell a story & what about an audience? More than one way to tell a story & what about an audience?

How? Listen to the story and understand what the person is saying about their situation, their difficulty – ask ‘how’ rather than ‘why’ questions Listen to the story and understand what the person is saying about their situation, their difficulty – ask ‘how’ rather than ‘why’ questions Respond in ways that build and maintain rapport to encourage continuation of the dialogue – search for the detail Respond in ways that build and maintain rapport to encourage continuation of the dialogue – search for the detail Ask the kinds of open questions that draw out more information Ask the kinds of open questions that draw out more information

And with ‘challenging clients’ Don’t look for blame, but externalise the problem and separate the person from the problem – name the problem, start with ‘it’ until a name is found that fits: ‘Trouble’ is an example of naming the problem in order to give ‘it’ an identity separate from the person Don’t look for blame, but externalise the problem and separate the person from the problem – name the problem, start with ‘it’ until a name is found that fits: ‘Trouble’ is an example of naming the problem in order to give ‘it’ an identity separate from the person Help clients to move on and build alternative ‘career’ stories that will make managing the present easier whilst working together to make positive changes Help clients to move on and build alternative ‘career’ stories that will make managing the present easier whilst working together to make positive changes The techniques and skills to achieve this have much in common with those used in solution focused work.

Narrative thinking applied to interviews – SFBT strategies Seeking exceptions Seeking exceptions Scaling Scaling Building on strengths Building on strengths Questions about a possible future Questions about a possible future Using the miracle question Using the miracle question One step at a time One step at a time Doing something different Doing something different Compliments Compliments Even when ‘career’ decisions are not needed immediately, the person can play with an idea for a dream future.

Accessible literature for applying narrative thinking to practice Winslade, J., & Monk, G. (1999) Narrative counseling in schools: powerful and brief, Thousand Oaks, California: Corwin Press Inc Winslade, J., & Monk, G. (1999) Narrative counseling in schools: powerful and brief, Thousand Oaks, California: Corwin Press Inc McMahon, M., & Patton, W. (2006) (eds) Career counselling: Constructivist approaches. Oxon: Routledge. McMahon, M., & Patton, W. (2006) (eds) Career counselling: Constructivist approaches. Oxon: Routledge.

A way forward – from talking to doing? An invitation to participate in a collaborative project. Creating, applying, adapting and evaluating a narrative ‘model’ for career guidance interviewing.