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Russell B. Lemle, Ph.D. San Francisco VA Medical Center APPIC Conference, Portland, OR April 18, 2009.

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Presentation on theme: "Russell B. Lemle, Ph.D. San Francisco VA Medical Center APPIC Conference, Portland, OR April 18, 2009."— Presentation transcript:

1 Russell B. Lemle, Ph.D. San Francisco VA Medical Center APPIC Conference, Portland, OR April 18, 2009

2 ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS Toni Zeiss, Ph.D. Deputy Chief Consultant MH Strategic Healthcare Group, DVA Central Office John Arden, Ph.D. Director of Training, Kaiser Permanente Medical Centers, Northern California Region Bob Zeiss, Ph.D. Director, Associate Health Education, Office of Academic Affiliations, DVA Central Office Bob Goldberg, Ph.D. Director of Training, Louis Stokes Cleveland DVA Medical Center; APPIC Newsletter Editor APPIC Board Steve McCutcheon, Ph.D., Sharon Berry, Ph.D., Karen Taylor, Ph.D., Eugene D'Angelo, Ph.D., Teri Simoneau, Ph.D., Arnold Abels, Ph.D., Marla Eby, Ph.D.

3 Overview History of how postdoctoral programs made offers Effort to organize UND starting in 2004 Current status of UND Issues with UND Possible modifications & alternatives to UND Suggested direction for going forward Discussion and dialogue

4 APPIC Postdoctoral Members Training YearNumber of Agencies Offering Postdocs Number of Positions

5 VA Postdoctoral Positions

6 March 16 February 15 Tale of Two Fellowships


8 Competition has been shown to be useful up to a certain point and no further, but cooperation, which is the thing we must strive for today, begins where competition leaves off. Franklin D. Roosevelt

9 Uniform Notification Date Programs make offers on same date Candidates may receive multiple offers Candidates can accept, reject or hold If hold, they must formally decide within specified (24 hr) period

10 UND Advantages Applicants have best chance of getting their highest ranked program by hearing from all programs before choosing Applicants not put in (ethical) dilemma of accepting 2 nd choice and then hearing later from 1 st choice Programs dont lose the applicants who would have preferred their site but decide to take an earlier in hand offer Programs have larger pool or applicants to review Programs dont have to compete by beating others to the punch

11 Early Regional UND Effort: 2004 Created voluntary UND for Northern California Postdoc programs Key Collaborators John Arden, Ph.D. Toni Zeiss, Ph.D. March 16, 2004 UND: 15 programs participated with 75 positions Very successful; positive feedback from both programs and students

12 First National UND Effort: VA The large increase in VA postdoc positions provided opportunity to expand voluntary UND nationally Some programs asked to move date earlier Feb 28, 2008 UND 30 of 44 VA programs elected to use UND 10 VA programs made offers before; 4 after Again, worked beautifully

13 Further Expansion National UND Published UND article in APPIC e-newsletter May 2008 Contacted remainder of 125 APPIC postdoctoral members Contacted 47+ non-APPIC postdoc programs Of the current (and soon to be) APPIC programs with clinical postdocs, 65% volunteered to use UND

14 Notification of Postdoctoral Offers (not in APPCN Match) as of April 2009

15 Where We Are 65% of APPIC (plus VA) programs on board for Feb UND Total of 107 programs using UND More programs would join if in March postdoc positions offered on same day We have great momentum Already have significant level of organization that could continue as interim process Vast majority of programs and applicants very pleased, but some concerns

16 Concerns Raised about UND February date too early Still losing applicants to preemptive offers Programs want to secure their top choice Other issues

17 Concern About February Date Overlaps Internship Match process (h ard on program staff) Feb UND also comes before APPCN Neuropsych Match results announced ~ second Monday in March Feb UND comes before APA Rehab (22) & Forensic (41) conferences in early March Interviews occur during these conferences ANSWER: Moving UND date back is feasible (preferable for most programs)

18 Want to Lock In Top Choice Elite programs as well as uncompetitive programs want to secure their applicants early If UND voluntary, lose desired candidates to earlier pre-emptive offers from programs not using UND Research based clinical postdocs need flexibility to compete with early research fellowships (or jobs) Keep current interns (and save them unnecessary burden of applying elsewhere) Best applicant may come later, so prefer to wait

19 Response to Top Choice Argument Significantly resolves the competitive system that existed until two years ago that benefitted only those programs that pre-empted others. UND benefits programs system-wide UND allows applicants to have all their options known, not choose prematurely, and have increased chance of getting highest ranked program UND allows programs to re-advertise and wait

20 Coordinating Offers Coddles Applicants Cut throat free market system is an opportunity for applicants to get a dress rehearsal for the competitive professional job market Applicants shouldnt have option of multiple offers to chose from ANSWER: Multiple offers are in their best interest Allow candidates to negotiate salary, start date and terms if dress rehearsal is prime goal

21 Other Lingering UND Problems Applicants need to know that offers wont start until noon Eastern Time, and to not hold multiple offers Need consistent hold time (1 hr to 24hr, what to do over weekend) Programs need to immediately notify all rejects by phone to clear system

22 Alternatives/Modifications to UND Match Early Acceptance of Current Interns Uniform Acceptance Date Reciprocal Offer Later UND date

23 Uniform Acceptance Date (UAD) Offers made at any point in time Applicants can hold offers up to a coordinated set date

24 Advantages to a UAD Programs can make offers to candidates as soon as they identify them, or to ones that have received another offer Applicants can accept right away. If hear from #1 choice, spared additional applications and interviews By acceptance day, many applicants already out of the mix, making it a smaller, simpler day of calling Can make early offers to current interns Used by college admissions

25 Disadvantages to UAD Very hard to enforce. Likely to fall apart. Pressure to decide before UAD Unlike college admissions, programs have only 1-2 slots, and cannot overbook Applicants do not know all their choices Most sites prefer a LATER date (in March); UAD moves things forward in time UND already being used by 107 sites. Would be a step backwards

26 Suggested Process Going Forward Could create option in UND process which would enable programs to respond to an applicant who produces an offer letter from another site (outside the UND) with a reciprocal offer UND programs would not make own pre-emptive offers Some UND programs already doing this Solves key complaint of losing candidates to programs not in UND Eliminates arms race Move date to mid-March

27 Who we are doing this for

28 Postdoctoral Clinical Fellowship Uniform Notification Date. A History and Proposal ext 2348

29 Sample UND Instructional Letter to Candidates Our program will follow the Uniform Notification Date (UND) procedures. Offers will commence on 2/25/10 at 09:00 am Pacific time (12:00 Eastern). Please make sure prior to UND that I have the telephone number(s) at which you can be reached throughout the day. If I cannot reach you at the number(s) you have provided, I may choose to offer a position to the next person on our list. All candidates should have a rank order of their choices completed before the UND. Once an offer is made to you, one of three things can occur: you can accept the offer, decline the offer, or ask for up to 24 hours to "hold" the offer. If you decide to hold the offer, then the position is frozen and will not be offered to any other candidate during that time period. Candidates should not hold more than one offer at a time. After receiving and holding an offer, each time you are offered a higher ranked position, you should accept or hold it and immediately release the offer that you were previously holding. As soon as you either accept or hold an offer, please call all of the remaining programs that are lower on your preference list and inform them that you no longer wish to be considered at their site. If you are not our #1 ranked candidate, I will still call you during the day to let you know how things are progressing. If and when we fill our positions, I will notify you. You may call me at any time during the day to inquire about your status. If you are selected, I will send you a formal offer letter the following week, and will need a formal letter of acceptance from you.

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