1. RFC4441rev status as of IETF 86 Spencer Dawkins spencer@wonderhamster.org

2. Background RFC 4441 describes IEEE 802-IETF relationship... –... As of about 2004 A lot of water under the bridge since then –IEEE 802 now doing their own MIB work –Canonical list of coordination topics grown from 5 to about 20 –More coordination topics expected IEEE 802/IETF/IAB leadership meeting in July 2012 –Trained each body about the other –Reviewed a bunch of coordination topics –Agreed to revise RFC 4441 (“RFC4441rev”) Assembled drafting team from both SDOs –Trying to cross the finish line now IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 2

3. The High-order Bit The target audience for this document: –IEEE 802 and IETF participants... –... who are working or proposing new work... –... in one of these organizations... –... on topics that may overlap or conflict... –... with work in the other organization, –... who may not be familiar with the other organization, –... who need some understanding of the other organization, –... but who may never attend a meeting in the other organization The document is not binding on either IETF or IEEE 802 –It does not override existing processes in either organization This needs to be blindingly obvious to every reader IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 3

4. Where we are now IAB Last Call on draft -03 ended Friday before IETF –Helpful comments from Bernard, Dave, Adrian and Russ –Also received early feedback from IEEE 802.11 Most comments are straightforward –Magic incantation to see the comments is http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/query?status=assigned&st atus=closed&status=new&status=reopened&component=draft- iab-rfc4441rev&order=priority http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/query?status=assigned&st atus=closed&status=new&status=reopened&component=draft- iab-rfc4441rev&order=priority Some aren't... –So, let’s talk! IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 4

5. Descriptive text This is the biggest issue we’re dealing with –-03 includes descriptive text about the way IETF works –This isn’t IEEE 802-specific (comparisons are, of course) There’s a real tension between –IETF comments: “point to BCPs and stop typing” –IEEE comments: “please tell us MORE” IETF concern is about casual text –Sample: "working group chairs manage working groups“ –Sure, we can do a clean-up pass, checking carefully Meta-IETF concern about possible confusion –Of ANY non-BCP text that can be misaligned with BCP text IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 5

6. Proposed solutions Drafting team still wants to say SOMETHING –Tao of IETF is general guidance for new IETF participants –Not designed for IEEE 802 people who need to liaise with IETF Major surgery –Replace generic IETF description with pointers to BCPs –Move “compare and contrast” to clearly labeled appendix IEEE 802 sections also have descriptive text –Information spread over multiple documents Minor surgery –Seriously careful review looking for what’s imprecise –Leave “compare and contrast” in the body of the text Compared to this issue, all the others are easy IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 6

7. Who is responsible for notifications? Proposal: –We have liaison relationships for most existing work –Each group initiating work will notify other SDO –Use New-work as the notification path –Neither SDO needs to monitor other’s WG mailing lists, etc. –Other SDO is responsible for identifying affected groups –Has the expertise to navigate own organization –If all else fails, anybody can talk to anybody, as a “heads-up” New-Work mailing list is only the beginning –IEEE 802/IETF coordination calls become really important IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 7

8. Mismatched levels of documentation “What's the IEEE/IETF equivalent?“ asked many times –IEEE 802 and IETF evolved separately for decades –example: IETF has web page of liaison relationships –IEEE didn’t have an equivalent page Many are easy to fix –IEEE 802 added equivalent liaison relationships page this week Many not want perfect symmetry –How long do we want to wait for more fixes? IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 8

9. Intended path forward Resolve the comments received to date –Wasn’t able to resolve them all prior to this meeting – sorry! IAB issues Call for Comment to community –May also receive additional IEEE 802-side comments –Resolve comments received during this step Is IEEE 802 planning to ballot this? –Or IEEE 802 working groups just provide comments? –Could IEEE 802 provide a note about their agreement? Publish as IAB stream RFC –Not planning to publish this in an IEEE 802 equivalent form –IEEE 802 will add to Chairs Guidelines We’re shooting to be finished by June. 2013. IETF 86 March 2013IAB Liaison Oversight ProgramSlide 9

10. Q&A and Discussion