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Nephilim, Goliath, and Post-Flood Big Guys. The Bible refers to several special populations which many students of the Bible believe to be genetically.

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Presentation on theme: "Nephilim, Goliath, and Post-Flood Big Guys. The Bible refers to several special populations which many students of the Bible believe to be genetically."— Presentation transcript:

1 Nephilim, Goliath, and Post-Flood Big Guys

2 The Bible refers to several special populations which many students of the Bible believe to be genetically related. The title of “Nephilim” is given before the flood to the first of these groups. The translation of it is uncertain enough so that some of our top theologians disagree, but commonly, translations read,

3 This study’s approach We tend to associate giants with fairy-tales. Not wishing to seem superstitious, many Christians spend little time with the subject of Biblical giants. We tend to associate giants with fairy-tales. Not wishing to seem superstitious, many Christians spend little time with the subject of Biblical giants. This study looks first in detail at the scripture’s testimony concerning these groups. To the best of my ability I allow the text to say what it says. This study looks first in detail at the scripture’s testimony concerning these groups. To the best of my ability I allow the text to say what it says. Extra-biblical stories about giants are briefly considered. Extra-biblical stories about giants are briefly considered. Lastly, realities of physiology and physics are brought to bear on the subject, finding limiting factors, and revealing that the Bible’s record of giants is actually evidence for the reliability of scripture. Lastly, realities of physiology and physics are brought to bear on the subject, finding limiting factors, and revealing that the Bible’s record of giants is actually evidence for the reliability of scripture. (click to continue)

4 e-Sword Scriptural texts used in this study are copied from several translations of the Bible supplied with the Bible study software e-Sword version This powerful Bible study tool is available FREE at Many translations are available, with dictionaries (such as Strong’s), commentaries, atlases, Christian books and other resources free, or at modest price. Scriptural texts used in this study are copied from several translations of the Bible supplied with the Bible study software e-Sword version This powerful Bible study tool is available FREE at Many translations are available, with dictionaries (such as Strong’s), commentaries, atlases, Christian books and other resources free, or at modest price.

5 In May of 2008 Creation Science Fellowship member Roger Lenard piqued CSFNM curiosity regarding the nature of the Biblical giants, the Nephilim. In May of 2008 Creation Science Fellowship member Roger Lenard piqued CSFNM curiosity regarding the nature of the Biblical giants, the Nephilim. Citing extra-biblical reports of evidences for giants as much as 36 feet tall, Roger suggested that demonic cross breeding may have resulted in populations of soul- less giants which could explain puzzling aspects of Scripture, archeology and mythology. Citing extra-biblical reports of evidences for giants as much as 36 feet tall, Roger suggested that demonic cross breeding may have resulted in populations of soul- less giants which could explain puzzling aspects of Scripture, archeology and mythology. THE BACKGROUND OF THIS PRESENTATION

6 BACKGROUND Roger said the name “Rephaim”, given one of these groups suggests they had no souls. Roger said the name “Rephaim”, given one of these groups suggests they had no souls. Seeing that I had pointed questions for Roger, the Fellowship’s president invited me to revisit the topic with a future presentation. Eventually I got that presentation together and gave it. With some updating, here it is. Seeing that I had pointed questions for Roger, the Fellowship’s president invited me to revisit the topic with a future presentation. Eventually I got that presentation together and gave it. With some updating, here it is.

7 Extra-biblical Accounts and legends tell of massive characters with strength unmatched even by modern technology. How does the Biblical testimony compare with these? Accounts and legends tell of massive characters with strength unmatched even by modern technology. How does the Biblical testimony compare with these?

8 The Coming of the Nephilim The Nephilim are first described in Genesis. The Nephilim are first described in Genesis. (Gen 6:1-4 Literal Translation, or LITV) “And it came about that men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them. The sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good, and they took wives for themselves from all those whom they chose. And Jehovah said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man; in their erring he is flesh. And his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. The giants were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.” (Gen 6:1-4 Literal Translation, or LITV) “And it came about that men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them. The sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good, and they took wives for themselves from all those whom they chose. And Jehovah said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man; in their erring he is flesh. And his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. The giants were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.” Heroes from ancient time? Who were they? Who were those parents? Heroes from ancient time? Who were they? Who were those parents?

9 WAIT! How Important is This Question? My original presentation on this subject was given from the viewpoint that the Nephilim were linked genetically to the other, post-flood characters. Challenges to my position by Jim Hovis, (also of the Creation Science Fellowship of New Mexico) and in the paper A Genesis Model for the Origin, Variation, and Continuation of Human Populations (CRSQ 47-2) by Dr Joel Klenck prompted another, closer look.

10 Learning the Limits of My Information Previously I had the impression that the word “Nephil” was attached to all the post-flood giants. Thanks to Jim and Dr Klenck I saw that “Nephil” itself only occurs once after the flood, in questionable testimony, in Numbers 13:31-33: “But the men that went up with him said, We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we. And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched to the sons of Israel, saying, The land through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eats up those who live in it. And all the people whom we saw in it were men of stature. And there we saw the giants [nephilim], the sons of Anak, of the giants [nephilim]. And we were in our own sight like grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.” (MKJV)

11 Doubtful Testimony For their unfaithful report, God killed ten of the twelve spies with plague. Their claim that the sons of Anak were of the Nephilim may be wrong, but scripture does not actually contradict it. Their position that the Israelites could not defeat such an enemy is contradicted on the grounds that God was going to help them. It is important to recognize that scripture’s narrative does not say the Anakim are Nephilim; only that these unfaithful spies said so.

12 Were the Nephilim even Large? In Genesis 6, the text about the Nephilim says nothing (necessarily) of size in the original language. In light of these facts I now recognize that the post-flood groups and persons may actually be unrelated to the Nephilim. On further reflection I also see that the insights I’m presenting don’t need the Nephilim connection. After a glance at the many uses of the sons of God concept, this discussion will focus on post- flood populations and persons like Goliath.

13 People Called Sons of God Person or GroupScripture ReferencesExpression UsedComment AdamLuke 3:38Which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God “son of” is counted as implied throughout the genealogy. Solomon2 Samuel 7: Chron 22:9-10 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. Figurative adoption Sons of IsraelHos 1:10sons of the living God“ben chay el” Stranger in the Furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego Daniel 3:23-25“the Son of God” or “a son of the gods” Chaldee “bar elahh”, interpreted by Nebuchadnezar Christians/peacemakersMat 5:9, Luke 20:36, Rom 8:14&19, Rom 9:6-8, Rom 9:26, Gal 3:26, 4:4-7, 1 John 3:2 “children of God”, ”children of the living God” “Technon”, or “uihos” of “Theos” JesusJohn 3:16, Psalm 2:7, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22, Acts 13:33, Heb 1:5, Heb 5:5 “only begotten Son of God”“monogenes” “uihos” Congregants Before God Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:4-7“sons of God”“ben Elohim” Parents of the NephilimGen 6:2&4“sons of God”“ben Elohim”

14 Farewell to the Nephilim I still have the information gathered to discuss the origin of the Nephilim, but I now count the identity of the Sons of God and the Daughters of men as a side issue. As such I will not go any further into the Nephilim question per se. I still have the information gathered to discuss the origin of the Nephilim, but I now count the identity of the Sons of God and the Daughters of men as a side issue. As such I will not go any further into the Nephilim question per se.

15 Now, How About Those Giants?

16 “GIANTS?” WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT “GIANTS”? UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE CONCEPT OF GIANTS, SOME PEOPLE SUGGEST ALTERNATE READINGS. UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE CONCEPT OF GIANTS, SOME PEOPLE SUGGEST ALTERNATE READINGS. TRANSLATION ACROSS LANGUAGE, CULTURE, AGES, AND WORLDVIEWS IS TRICKY. TRANSLATION ACROSS LANGUAGE, CULTURE, AGES, AND WORLDVIEWS IS TRICKY. WHERE ONE VERSION INTERPRETS, ANOTHER TRANSLITERATES WHERE ONE VERSION INTERPRETS, ANOTHER TRANSLITERATES Words translated “giants” can mean other things Words translated “giants” can mean other things Several words can mean “giants” Several words can mean “giants”

17 Names of Giants, A to Z Anakim (sons of Anak) (Num 13:33 KJV+) “And there we saw the giants (Nephil), the sons of Anak, which come of the giants (Nephil): and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.” Anakim (sons of Anak) (Num 13:33 KJV+) “And there we saw the giants (Nephil), the sons of Anak, which come of the giants (Nephil): and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.” Emims (Deu 2:10-11 LITV) “The Emim lived there in days gone by, a great and plentiful people, and tall as the Anakim; they are reckoned to be giants (Rapha), they too, like the Anakim; but the Moabites call them Emim.” Emims (Deu 2:10-11 LITV) “The Emim lived there in days gone by, a great and plentiful people, and tall as the Anakim; they are reckoned to be giants (Rapha), they too, like the Anakim; but the Moabites call them Emim.” Nephilim (Gen 6:4 LITV) “The giants (Nephil) were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.” Nephilim (Gen 6:4 LITV) “The giants (Nephil) were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.” The Giants and Heroes of Old Per Scripture

18 Names of Giants, A to Z Rephaim (Deu 3:11 LITV) For only Og the king of Bashan remained of the rest of the giants (Rapha). Behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the sons of Ammon, nine cubits long and four cubits broad, by the cubit of a man? Strong’s, H7497 רפה רפא ra^pha^' ra^pha^h raw-faw', raw- faw‘ From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051. Rephaim (Deu 3:11 LITV) For only Og the king of Bashan remained of the rest of the giants (Rapha). Behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the sons of Ammon, nine cubits long and four cubits broad, by the cubit of a man? Strong’s, H7497 רפה רפא ra^pha^' ra^pha^h raw-faw', raw- faw‘ From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051. Zamzummims (Deu 2:20 KJV+) That also was accounted a land of giants (Rapha): giants (Rapha) dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; Zamzummims (Deu 2:20 KJV+) That also was accounted a land of giants (Rapha): giants (Rapha) dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

19 The Nephilim Connection Introduced in Genesis, the Nephilim were apparently a remarkable group. (Gen 6:4 LITV) “The giants (Nephil) were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.” Introduced in Genesis, the Nephilim were apparently a remarkable group. (Gen 6:4 LITV) “The giants (Nephil) were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them; they were heroes which existed from ancient time, the men of name.” The text, however, does not necessarily mean they were larger people. After the flood they are named once: (Num 13:33 KJV+) “And there we saw the giants (Nephil), the sons of Anak, which come of the giants (Nephil): and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.” (Num 13:33 KJV+) “And there we saw the giants (Nephil), the sons of Anak, which come of the giants (Nephil): and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.” The testimony is clear, but it’s said by the unfaithful spies. The Nephilim connection is weak. I’ll let it go.

20 Remember; In Deuteronomy 3 we learn nine cubits long and four cubits broad, by the cubit of a man The bed of Og, king of Bashan was “nine cubits long and four cubits broad, by the cubit of a man.” A cubit has supposedly been at different times and places 16 inches to 24 inches, (and more for special purposes, but this is not special.) Og’s bed was about thirteen to eighteen feet long by six to eight feet wide. Why so big? The context seems to indicate that it was because of his size. Does it really have to do with SIZE?

21 Goliath Now consider Goliath. The description of him centered on his size. My Bibles say he was “six cubits and a span.” By the normal cubits we know of that’s about nine to twelve feet tall. The Septuagint and the historian Josephus have him shorter. Josephus says, “Goliath, of the city of Gath, a man of vast bulk, for he was of four cubits and a span.” That’s around six feet eight to almost nine feet. Which is right? Let’s look at more information.

22 Goliath’s Fish-scale mail coat weighed 5000 shekels. A shekel being.025 lb, this armor weighed 125 pounds. Goliath’s Fish-scale mail coat weighed 5000 shekels. A shekel being.025 lb, this armor weighed 125 pounds. Goliath’s Equipment

23 Goliath’s spear was “like a weaver’s beam.” What’s that like ????? The beam of the looms pictured is the horizontal piece at top. There is information about weaving one can glean from the Bible. Exo 26:2 KJV says, “The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure.” This set of ten curtains was the inner layer of the Tabernacle.

24 Clue to size of a “weaver’s beam” In Exo 26:8 another set, of eleven curtains, made longer apparently to extend beyond the ones mentioned above, were also four cubits wide. One more of these was made, so they could overlap on all sides. Four cubits was perhaps just the maximum capacity of their looms. In Exo 26:8 another set, of eleven curtains, made longer apparently to extend beyond the ones mentioned above, were also four cubits wide. One more of these was made, so they could overlap on all sides. Four cubits was perhaps just the maximum capacity of their looms. Curtains four cubits wide (about six feet or more) would be woven on looms with wider beams – say, about eight to ten feet? And then add the spear point. Curtains four cubits wide (about six feet or more) would be woven on looms with wider beams – say, about eight to ten feet? And then add the spear point.

25 Goliath’s spear head alone weighed 600 shekels; or 15 pounds. That’s another foot or two to the eight or ten foot shaft. Assembled, Goliath’s spear would be around nine to eleven or more feet long.

26 A friend who has been in Medieval-style fighting competition tells me spears tend to be about the height of the warrior wielding them. Photos and drawings I have seen suggest the spear is a little longer. A friend who has been in Medieval-style fighting competition tells me spears tend to be about the height of the warrior wielding them. Photos and drawings I have seen suggest the spear is a little longer. Thus Goliath’s approximate height at nine or ten feet is confirmed by the size of his spear. Thus Goliath’s approximate height at nine or ten feet is confirmed by the size of his spear. What other “giants” does the Bible speak of? What other “giants” does the Bible speak of? The spear is the right size

27 Other Giants Killed by David and His Men 2Samuel 21:16 and 19 And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant (Rephaim), the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels(7.5 lbs) of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David. And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant (Rephaim), the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels(7.5 lbs) of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David. And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. (Rephaim) And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. (Rephaim)

28 Other Giants Killed by David and His Men And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. (2Sa 21:16 KJV) And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. (2Sa 21:16 KJV) And there was a battle again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi, the brother of Goliath the Gittite the wood of whose spear was like the weavers' beam. (1Ch 20:5 LITV) And there was a battle again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi, the brother of Goliath the Gittite the wood of whose spear was like the weavers' beam. (1Ch 20:5 LITV) And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. (Rephaim) (2Sa 21:18-20 KJV) And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. (Rephaim) (2Sa 21:18-20 KJV)

29 Giants of myth, legend, and the Internet With no restraint from reality, myths and legends serve up a diet of mountainous persons and beasts. The Internet, with wild abandon, is a riot of truth and fiction. Hard to differentiate, the tales of giants are as much there to deceive a to inform.

30 How Big Could They Have Been? My question was, “Wouldn’t there be a limitation for increasing size? The mass increases as the cube of the length but the area of the bone only increases as the square.” My thought was that the body mass increases faster than muscle strength. My question was, “Wouldn’t there be a limitation for increasing size? The mass increases as the cube of the length but the area of the bone only increases as the square.” My thought was that the body mass increases faster than muscle strength. “There are limits,” I was told, “but we do know that there were very large bipedal creatures, you know, dinosaurs...” “There are limits,” I was told, “but we do know that there were very large bipedal creatures, you know, dinosaurs...” Dinosaurs were reptiles, whose structure is different. Their bipeds were long, but only as much as about 15 feet tall, quadrupeds could be taller. How big were mammals? Dinosaurs were reptiles, whose structure is different. Their bipeds were long, but only as much as about 15 feet tall, quadrupeds could be taller. How big were mammals?

31 BALUCHITHERIUM aka Indricotherium 18 FEET AT THE SHOULDER The largest fossil land mammals known are called Baluchitherium, since they were found in Baluchistan. They are considered a rhinoceras, only without a horn. How large were they? Hundreds of their bones have apparently been found, including this skull. Source: Source:

32 At that size, Who Needs a Horn? Source:

33 The Red Bull of Catul Hayuk, Turkey Depicted on a stone in a ruined city which apparently worshiped horned bulls. Except for the horns, it’s as if a baluchitherium had wandered into town. What if the horns were artistic license? Or if the event was an old story which had gained horns in the telling by the time of this painting? Nephilim, however, were not giant beasts. source, The World’s Last Mysteries, Readers Digest Assoc. 1981

34 The Bible’s giants were Humans The Bible does not present the Nephilim, Anakim, Rephaim, etc. as anything other than Human. How big do humans get? The Bible does not present the Nephilim, Anakim, Rephaim, etc. as anything other than Human. How big do humans get? Documenting finds now is so easy. Pictures of an incident in one place can be all over the world in seconds. What is on the internet? Documenting finds now is so easy. Pictures of an incident in one place can be all over the world in seconds. What is on the internet?

35 Is Seeing Believing? Roger Lenard opened his discussion of giant skeleton finds with this picture, without comment, for visual impact. In Q&A, he admitted that he hadn’t investigated this one as thoroughly as he normally would, but had found it on a web site he counts respectable. Watch out. The Internet is a jungle.

36 Mammoth Look Familiar? What was Cornell University digging up here?

37 news/2007/12/photogalleries/ giantskeleton-pictures/index.html "The image was lifted from Worth1000, a Web site that hosts contests for digital artists. Created by an artist using the alias IronKite, the picture placed third in a 2002 competition titled "Archaeological Anomalies 2," which asked contestants to create a hoax archaeological discovery.” “As if one fake giant skeleton weren't enough, other images across the Internet have bolstered claims of massive human remains.”

38 With a bit of effort, we could probably find this guy In anybody’s backyard! But the existence of fakes does not prove real ones don’t exist!

39 Why do I think there’s a limit? Weight of a body increases with its volume. (Height 3 ) Weight of a body increases with its volume. (Height 3 ) Compressive strength of a bone increases with its cross-sectional area. (Diameter 2 ) Compressive strength of a bone increases with its cross-sectional area. (Diameter 2 ) Lifting strength of a muscle increases with its cross-sectional area.(Diameter 2 ) Lifting strength of a muscle increases with its cross-sectional area.(Diameter 2 ) That is, unless bone structure, muscle tone, and/or average body density changes. That is, unless bone structure, muscle tone, and/or average body density changes.

40 BONE STRENGTH Mechanically, the leg bones are “compressive members” of the skeletal framework of the human body. Their strength is dependent on the cross-sectional area. Mechanically, the leg bones are “compressive members” of the skeletal framework of the human body. Their strength is dependent on the cross-sectional area.

41 If a femur is expanded proportionally to twice its former length, the cross-sectional area becomes four times as great. Like four pillars joined together, its strength is quadrupled. If a femur is expanded proportionally to twice its former length, the cross-sectional area becomes four times as great. Like four pillars joined together, its strength is quadrupled.

42 Muscle Strength Muscles are bundles of individual cells, of about the same size and strength, pulling together. Muscle pull strength is an aggregate of the pull strength of all the muscle cells working in parallel with each other. Muscles are bundles of individual cells, of about the same size and strength, pulling together. Muscle pull strength is an aggregate of the pull strength of all the muscle cells working in parallel with each other.

43 But the total number of cells increases as the cube of the length! True. The muscle cells contract linearly, so cells linked end to end pull farther, not stronger. True. The muscle cells contract linearly, so cells linked end to end pull farther, not stronger.

44 Thus the muscle strength is proportional to the muscle cross-sectional area, which increases as the square of the height. Thus the muscle strength is proportional to the muscle cross-sectional area, which increases as the square of the height.

45 How the Strength and Weight Increase Take as a starting point Roger’s proposed six foot, 250 pound weight lifter capable of lifting 1.5 times his own weight. Take as a starting point Roger’s proposed six foot, 250 pound weight lifter capable of lifting 1.5 times his own weight. That lift capacity then is 375 pounds. While holding that up he also supports his own 250 pound body, for a total of 625 pounds. That lift capacity then is 375 pounds. While holding that up he also supports his own 250 pound body, for a total of 625 pounds. If he grew to 9 feet tall, keeping all the same proportions, muscle tone and tissue density, his lift capacity should become about pounds (1.5 x 1.5 x 625 lb). If he grew to 9 feet tall, keeping all the same proportions, muscle tone and tissue density, his lift capacity should become about pounds (1.5 x 1.5 x 625 lb). His body weight would go from 250 pounds to (1.5 x 1.5 x1.5 x 250). His body weight would go from 250 pounds to (1.5 x 1.5 x1.5 x 250). The strength increases by a factor of 2.25 while the body weight increases by a factor of The weight is catching up with the strength. The strength increases by a factor of 2.25 while the body weight increases by a factor of The weight is catching up with the strength. The way this develops is depicted in the following chart. The way this develops is depicted in the following chart.

46 54000lbs 22500lbs Capacity 625 Note the body weight surpasses the total strength at a height of about 15 ft. Strength Weight

47 750 Capacity 750 This is how the graph would look if our 6-foot weight lifter could lift twice his weight.

48 Let’s take a closer look at the front end of the original graph. Capacity 625

49 The lower line is body weight. Note how it is curving up toward the “TOTAL CAPACITY” line.

50 Lift Capacity as a Percentage of Body Weight Our proposed 6 ft weight lifter can lift 150% of his body weight. Shrink him to 3 ft, and his weight becomes lb, while his total capacity drops to Subtract his new weight of from that and his lift capacity is 125 pounds, which is 400 percent of his weight. The next graph shows how that develops in the wide range. Our proposed 6 ft weight lifter can lift 150% of his body weight. Shrink him to 3 ft, and his weight becomes lb, while his total capacity drops to Subtract his new weight of from that and his lift capacity is 125 pounds, which is 400 percent of his weight. The next graph shows how that develops in the wide range.

51 Note the 400% figure at the three foot point. And the 0% at 15 foot, meaning pretty much he couldn’t do anything. The 1 footer should be able to lift 14 times his own weight!

52 Strength of The very small Have you heard that researchers have found ants carrying over a hundred times their own weight? Have you heard that researchers have found ants carrying over a hundred times their own weight? According to this calculation method, if we shrink our weight lifter to ¼ inch tall, he should be able to lift 287 times his weight. According to this calculation method, if we shrink our weight lifter to ¼ inch tall, he should be able to lift 287 times his weight. However, the soft skin over such powerful muscles would be poor armor at this size. However, the soft skin over such powerful muscles would be poor armor at this size. Perhaps that’s why animals this small usually have a hard exoskeleton. Perhaps that’s why animals this small usually have a hard exoskeleton.

53 Limits at the Extremes The calculations in this study are done as though human bodies could be very much bigger or very much smaller without anything but gravitation becoming an issue. The calculations in this study are done as though human bodies could be very much bigger or very much smaller without anything but gravitation becoming an issue. In a very large body, speed of nerve impulses and blood transport would start to be a serious factor. In a very large body, speed of nerve impulses and blood transport would start to be a serious factor. Some blood vessels are already small enough so red blood cells go through single-file. How small can a pinky get and still have veins? Some blood vessels are already small enough so red blood cells go through single-file. How small can a pinky get and still have veins?

54 Who fits in the space with the highest available power? GOLIATH How much could these people lift, after they’ve lifted their own weight? Was Goliath The Most Terrible Single- Combat Competitor Possible? Available “Operational Strength” Subtract out the body weight from the total capacity and you get this graph. At about 15 feet, it’s all he can do to stand. So, are all big people Nephilim?

55 There are giants among us! Wilt Chamberlain, Arnold Schwarzeneggar, & Andre the Giant Robert Wadlow, Guinness record holder Unnamed brothers-in-law, 3 feet, and (supposedly) 9 feet 4 inches (Growth, Life Science Library) Do they have souls? I expect so!

56 These figures show sizes of skeletal remains reputed to have been found in history, relative to a six footer, “A” A slide used by Roger Lenard

57 A more readable version of the chart, obtained from Henry Johnson at the Institute of Omniology Where’s the documentation? Not here, and aside from scripture, and second-hand (or worse) accounts, I have yet to find real evidence of anyone bigger than Goliath.

58 Beyond Goliath Thus far, it seems unlikely that humans much larger than Goliath ever walked the Earth. On the other hand even the scant testimony of the previous slide does not actually claim those giants walked. Thus far, it seems unlikely that humans much larger than Goliath ever walked the Earth. On the other hand even the scant testimony of the previous slide does not actually claim those giants walked. If someone were to grow too large to stand, they may nevertheless be cared for, perhaps as some kind of deity. If someone were to grow too large to stand, they may nevertheless be cared for, perhaps as some kind of deity. We still await evidence of such giants. We still await evidence of such giants.

59 A note about Biblical Testimony Remember the slide in which Henry Johnson lines up eight images representing reported giants. Remember the slide in which Henry Johnson lines up eight images representing reported giants. Each giant is given a definite height, from little Caesar Maximinus Thrax at 8’6” to nameless 36’ skeletons claimed by Carthaginians. Each giant is given a definite height, from little Caesar Maximinus Thrax at 8’6” to nameless 36’ skeletons claimed by Carthaginians. The accounts of giants in scripture are not so neatly documented. The accounts of giants in scripture are not so neatly documented. A specific height is given for Goliath, but not for the rest. The size of Og’s bed, the size of spears, general references to these people being big. A specific height is given for Goliath, but not for the rest. The size of Og’s bed, the size of spears, general references to these people being big. What I see is honest accounts written down after battles when the actual bodies were no longer available for measurement. What I see is honest accounts written down after battles when the actual bodies were no longer available for measurement.

60 These accounts do not read like made up stories. Such evidence as was still available or remembered was written down without embellishment. The very sketchiness of the accounts is evidence of their authenticity. Little evidences like this, perhaps, are what prompted Isaac Newton to declare,

61 “We account the Scriptures of God to be the most sublime philosophy. I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatever.” “We account the Scriptures of God to be the most sublime philosophy. I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatever.” Source; The New Dictionary of Thoughts A Cyclopedia of Quotations by Tryon Edwards, © 1936 by Orsamus Turner Harris Source; The New Dictionary of Thoughts A Cyclopedia of Quotations by Tryon Edwards, © 1936 by Orsamus Turner Harris

62 Giants of legend can be so large as to represent forces of nature. Giants of legend can be so large as to represent forces of nature. Paul Bunyan is supposed to have built mountains and carved the Grand Canyon. Paul Bunyan is supposed to have built mountains and carved the Grand Canyon. The Gigantes of Greek myth “did” similar wonders. The Gigantes of Greek myth “did” similar wonders. The Giants of the Bible were not forces of nature. The Giants of the Bible were not forces of nature. They did not stand taller than flesh and bone could hold. Offspring of angels? Perhaps, but their bodies were nevertheless subject to natural, physical law. They did not stand taller than flesh and bone could hold. Offspring of angels? Perhaps, but their bodies were nevertheless subject to natural, physical law. God did miracles. The Biblical giants did not. God did miracles. The Biblical giants did not.

63 Conclusion Skeptics Skeptics seek to characterize Bible stories as irrational; physically impossible. They say the Ark was too small for the job until until they decide it was too big to be built. Goliath Goliath is counted as fictitious as Bunyan, yet close examination shows the human side of Biblical stories are within limits of physical reality. In In fact, the size attributed to Goliath may actually be near the right size for the ultimate single-combat warrior. The The opponents of scripture are not bound much by ideological honesty. For many it is more important for their thesis to be believed than for them to be right. Science Science cannot prove these events happened, especially since some “data” is misunderstood or misrepresented. can can shed light on natural possibilities and implications. Christians Christians need not accept the testimony of scripture in SPITE SPITE of the evidence.

64 Christians can believe the testimony in LIGHT of the evidence.

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