Presentation on theme: "Steps to Successful Reporting Part 1"— Presentation transcript:
1Steps to Successful Reporting Part 1 Welcome to today’s webinar on Steps to Successful Data Reporting.Todays Webinar Steps to Successful Reporting builds on from the new providers training and provides the essential steps on how to create and submit data using the reporting tool known as HEPCAT. If you missed the training session for new providers the presentation can be downloaded from our training page on HEIMSHELP.All information provided today is available on the supporting webpage the address of this webpage is on the screen and we will now have a quick look at this page.Webpage:
2This webpage has the following information; A copy of today’s presentationRecording of previous Steps to Successful Reporting Webinar10 steps to successful reportingLinks to data requirementsDetails on using HEPCAT and the naming of data filesList training resources and recorded webinarsInformation on how to correct reporting errorsA link to our eNewsWe will be covering each of these items in today’s and tomorrow’s webinar.
3Overview the Steps to Successful Reporting what are your data requirements and where to find them on HEIMSHELPthe importance of submitting quality data on timehow to plan your reporting yearHEPCAT submission processToday’s webinar will coverThe Steps to Successful Reportingwhat are your data requirements and where to find them on HEIMSHELPthe importance of submitting quality data on timehow to plan your reporting yearHEPCAT submission process, today we will demonstrate the reporting process in HEPCAT by creating a course submission
4Steps to Successful Data Reporting Over the two modules we will be build the steps required to guarantee success with reporting, meeting your requirements.The first step is to know your data requirements and deadlines.Be aware of documentation and where to access it and be sure to use the documentation as it will help you with planning and incorporating all deadlines into your processes. If you need assistance with understanding your requirements don’t be afraid to raise your questions with us.Have a trained team – don’t rely on just one personTo assure your success with reporting it is important that you have a trained team and we will focus on that now.Have a trained team – don’t rely on just one personKnow your data requirements and deadlines – plan your reporting calendar
5Have a trained teamMore than one person needs to know how and when to reportTeam members need to attend trainingKeep up to date with Data Collections e-NewsBenefits to you and your organisationMore than one person needs to know how and when to report.All organisations no matter how small need more than one person with the knowledge of reporting. Not having the staff available is not an acceptable excuse for missing a deadline.Team members need to attend our training sessionsAll staff members involved with reporting need to attend training sessions regularly.You particularly need to have people on your team trained in using the Higher Education Provider Client Assistance Tool known as HEPCAT and other systems you may need to use.We hold a range of training sessions throughout the year. The face to face trainings are valuable as it gives you an opportunity to meet with data collections officers from other providers. This networking opportunity might help you.We are also delivering training via webinars which have proven to be very popular due to the convenience they offer. We have advertised sessions and also individualised sessions where a provider has a specific issue requiring assistance.You are also welcome to come to our offices in Canberra or Perth for customised one on one training.On HEIMSHELP we have a range of online training videos including HEPCAT basics and also recordings of our past Webinars.Keep up to date with Data Collections e-NewsIt is a good idea to keep up to date. Every month we issue our e-News which has the latest information on data reporting. Ensure that your team is subscribed to receive our e-News so that you don’t miss any vital pieces of information that impact on reporting. All e-News editions are also available on our HEIMSHELP website, from the eNews page.Benefits to you and your organisationYou will quickly see the benefits of having a trained team as you will find your reporting workload is reduced, you will be well connected, know what support is available and how to access it.
6Why report? It is a legislative requirement You have responsibilities To your studentsTo the Australian GovernmentTo your organisationSo why report?As you know reporting is a Legislative RequirementApproved providers under the Higher Education Support ACT (HESA) 2003 are required to report high quality data to the department.You have responsibilitiesto your studentsTo ensure that your reported data reflects your student’s information and debts accuratelyThis data is used to inform students about their debts and other information is used in publicationsYou have responsibilities to the governmentTo provide information about your student’s debts and statistical data to the Minister.To submit high quality data to the department on time.To formally verify the accuracy of your reported data.You have responsibilities to your organisationReporting accurate data on time you will avoid the risk of your provider payments being underpaid or worse overpaid and having to repay to the department.
7What and when to reportAll reporting requirements are available atHow do you know what and when to report?HEIMSHELP is your main source of information.
8Reporting requirements The reporting requirements for the four data collections are available from the buttons at the top of the HEIMSHELP page. These buttons are available from every page on HEIMSHELP.
9Higher education student data collection I will focus on the two student data collections today.For Higher education providers information on the Higher education student data collection is listed under this tab.
10VET FEE-HELP data collection and for VET providers your requirements are listed under this tab.The layout of the reporting requirement pages is similar across all the collections for both Higher education and VET providers.As we have more VET providers today in attendance we will demonstrate how you can access the reporting requirements for the VET FEE-HELP data collection.
11Under HESA a Ministerial Notice is issued each year detailing the data requirements for the next reporting year. A separate notice is issued for the Higher Education Data Collections and the VET FEE-HELP Data Collection.The Ministerial Notices for the 2014 reporting year was first issued on 27 March At times updates to the data requirements can occur, the most recent update to the 2014 requirements occurred on 5 March 2014.This page provides you with a copy of the Ministerial Notice and the 2014 Reporting Requirements and Change Control document which details the reporting requirements for the year and lists any changes that apply to the data elements and submission files.The data requirements for each year are issued in advance before reporting starts for the year. This gives you time to plan for any required updates to your systems to reflect changes to reporting requirements.We generally give as much notice as possible through our e-News and training sessions. Any significant policy changes you would normally hear from the department first.
12HEIMSHELP provides you with information about the what, how and when of data reporting. Today we will have a closer look at the 2014 Reporting requirements for the VET FEE-HELP data collection as an example.The reporting requirements include information aboutWhat you report (which is provided in the Scope and Structure guidelines and the Data elements)When you report (your reporting deadlines)How you report (using HEPCAT)Let’s have a look at your reporting deadlines first
13Student submission deadlines When do you report?Student submission deadlinesCensus datesDeadlines1 Jan to 31 Mar 201431 May 20141 Apr to 30 Jun 201431 Aug 20141 Jul to 31 Aug 201431 Oct 20141 Sept to 31 Dec 201431 Mar 2015The Student and VET Student submissions have up to four deadlines for each reporting year. Each deadline depends on the census dates your organisation has set for your unit(s) of study being offered.For example if you have census dates between 1 April and 30 June this year you will need to report a Student submission by 31 August 2014, this is the next submission date due for providers.You can submit your data as soon as your census date has passed. But you must submit your data for all census dates by the required deadline.Remember that these dates are the final deadline. If you are late you will be in breach of the legislation.
14Course of Study and Campus submissions When do you report?Course of Study and Campus submissionsHigher education providers1 August deadlineVET FEE-HELP providersBefore any student data is reportedAll providers must have submitted data about their courses before a student submission can be reported.This is the Course of Study submission for higher education providers and the VET Course of Study submission for VET providers.For higher education providers you must submit your course data by 1 August. That is for courses being offered in the 2015 reporting year you will need to have your data submitted by 1 August Higher education providers also need to report information about your campus locations by this date as well. If you are a recently approved higher education provider you will need to submit your course of study and campus submissions for 2014 year as soon as possible as the deadline for these have passed.For VET providers as mentioned details of your courses must be provided to the department before any student data is reported. VET providers are not required to report a Campus submission.
15Unit of study and course completions data When do you report?Unit of study and course completions data2014 completions data due 30 April 2015These dates are relevant to higher education and VET providers.The Unit of Study and Course Completions data are due 30 April each year.This means that if you reported student data for 2014 you will need to report data about your students’ unit of study completions and students who have completed their course in 2014 year. As you can see the deadline for these submissions are not due until to 30 April Which means that these submission can easily be forgotten by providers so it is best to mark these dates in your calendar.
16All of your submission dates are included in the Key dates and deadlines calendar available on HEIMSHELP, as per the printer friendly version shown on the screen.As mentioned the next reporting deadline is 31 August 2014.
17What do you reportReturning to HEIMSHELP, we will now have a look at the remaining documents that are part of the reporting requirements.
18You will be reporting your data in a submission You will be reporting your data in a submission. Some submissions – like the course of study and VET course of study submission includes one data file. Other submissions includes two or three files. For example the Student and VET Student submissions include three data files.The scope and structure guidelines provide essential information about the data you need to include in each of the data files.Scope guidelines provide information about the range of data you need to include in a submission, you will find the scope documents are a useful reference. It provides information about the type of data you need to include, the submission it is included in and if there are other files that are related.Structure guidelines detail the data elements that are included in a file and the order the elements need to be reported. This information will assist your organisation with setting up a system that will enable you to export details of students enrolment and study load into a format required for reporting.The scope, structure and data element guidelines for the VET FEE-HELP collection are in a similar format to the guidelines for the Higher education student collection.
19Today we will use the VET Course of Study file structure to help explain the different types of data elements and how the data file is formed.
20You can see that every data element has a name such as Course code, Course name and so on.
21Every data element has a number such as 307, 308, 310 and so on
22Looking at the position and width, every data element takes up a certain position in the file with a set number of characters that can be reported, being the width of the data.
23Each data element will have a required data type, being either alphanumeric or numeric, depending on the type of data being reported either a set of numbers, text or a combination of both will be required.
24We will now have a look at three of these data elements more closely.
25This is the guideline for Element 308 which is Course name You can see that some of the information that we saw on the file structure about this data element also is included in the guidelines – like the element number, element name and data type. It also has other information like the version number for that data element and the first year that that version was used.
26Under the heading “Classification” we see that any data can be submitted for element 308. In this case the coding of this element is by way of free text. This course name should be reported inline with your accreditation by Tertiary Education Quality Standards Agency (TEQSA) for higher education providers or training.gov.au (TGA) and the department’s HELP IT System (HITS)It is important that your course information accurately describes what you are submitting. As mentioned earlier higher education course information is made available to students on the MyUniversity website, be mindful how you code the name of your courses and the use of abbreviations like “B Arts” for Bachelor of Arts, coding in this way is not helpful to students when searching for courses.
27Element 310 – Course of study type code uses a different method of classification.
28It provides a code for each course type. So you can see, that 01 is for a Higher Doctorate course,10 is for Bachelor Pass and80 is for a Vocational Graduate Certificate course and so onThe level of your course will determine what code you report for this element. Providers will be required to report the course level that has been approved for the course.You will find that there are many elements similar to this one that provide you with the codes.
29There is a third type of classification for elements. Element 461 Field of education code is an example of classification coding that is based on ranges. It provides codes ranging from to for each of the different fields of education as it is not practical to list all codes on the element. This means that any code in this range will be accepted by the system.
30The full list of codes for this element is maintained by the ABS so we provide a direct link to their website to enable you to look-up the applicable code – you can see in this case that the link will take you to Appendix E – Field of Education Classification.Link
31Reporting requirements HEIMSHELP websiteThese appendices are also available in the menu under Appendices, codes and tables.
32Reporting requirements Before we finish this section of the presentation we will recap on some other features of HEIMSHELP.Don’t forget the New Starter toolkit where you can access key information applicable to newly approved providers like:AccessWhat you need to reportWhen you need to report andHow you report your data to the department.It is also available from the yellow button on the right of the HEIMSHELP home page.
33Reporting requirements There are two search functions available on HEIMSHELP to assist you with finding information. The first is a quick search to find information, based on what you need to do.
34Reporting requirements The second is google search which is a very effective way to find information stored on HEIMSHELP and we encourage you to give it a go.
35Reporting requirements The toolkits section has the essential information grouped together to make it easier for you to access information from the one location.
36Reporting requirements Like the “Reporting with HEPCAT toolkit”, gives you direct access to information you need to know before you start reporting with HEPCAT, lists minimum system requirements, includes details on how to install HEPCAT and links to training resources, user guides and other relevant information.
37Reporting requirements Other resources provide essential information including the training page. We would recommend that after this session that you have a look at what existing training materials particularly the webinars and online training videos are available on HEIMSHELP.
38Steps to Successful Data Reporting So we have shown you where to find your data requirements and the importance of knowing them and your submission deadlines.We have also discussed the importance of having a trained team and not to rely on just one person to submit your data.The next steps are about the systems you will be using – particularly HEPCAT.Know how to use HEPCAT and Other relevant SystemsJust a reminder that each member of your team needs to have individual accessFor security reasons you may not under any circumstances use another team member’s log on ID.Know how to use HEPCAT and other systems you needHave a trained team – don’t rely on just one personKnow your data requirements and deadlines – plan your reporting calendar
39Reporting with HEPCAT to HEIMS Check your data after each submission using HEIMS OnlineFormal Verification occurs twice a yearThe system Validates dataallowing you to submitHEIMS accepts data after successful validationCreate a submission and import data into HEPCATInstall HEPCATLogon details requiredWe will now have a look at the four processes required to report data using the reporting tool HEPCAT.We have already mentioned that the data is submitted to the Higher Education Information Management System – known as HEIMS. Most data is submitted using HEPCAT.Firstly you will need to install HEPCAT before any reporting can be started.To get access you will need to complete a HEIMS access form which is available from the Systems and access page on HEIMSHELP.Create a Submission and Import dataWe will be showing you in the demonstration how to create a Course submission in HEPCAT and then to import data into this submission. Some providers may key in their data and we will also touch on that.The system will then validate your data.Validation is a process where the data that you are submitting is checked to ensure accuracy and consistency.HEPCAT conducts the first level of data checking.HEPCAT will check to ensure that your data is accurately coded, dates are in the correct format, debts and amount charged are aligned.Validate (HEIMS)Once your data passes the validations in HEPCAT you can then submit your data to HEIMSHEIMS performs the next level of system checks on your data, outside of HEPCAT. It will check the data in your submission against information previously reported to HEIMS about your students and your courses.HEIMS will accept the data if no “fatal’ errors have occurred on submission. We’ll talk more about errors later in Module 2 of Step to Successful Reporting.Verify/Quality Assurance (HEIMS Online)The last step to reporting quality data is the checks that you perform on your data. It is recommended that you check your data after each submission. You are also required to formally verify that your data is accurate twice a year. Which we will cover in Module 2.
40How to use HEPCAT HEPCAT user Guides – available on HEIMSHELP Part 1 - InstallationPart 2 – Submission processesPart 3 – Database managementHEPCAT Basics Training videosHow to use HEPCATHEPCAT User guides provide detailed information on how to use HEPCAT and are available from the Reporting with HEPCAT toolkit.Part 1 – Details how to install the HEPCAT prerequisites and applicationPart 2 – Details the submission processes in HEPCAT We will demonstrate the 5 steps required for reporting a Course of Study Submission which will be the similar for both Higher Education and VET providers.Create a submissionImport or key in dataValidateSubmit andHEIMS Accepts the submissionPart 3 – Provides information on how to manage your HEPCAT Database, particularly backing up your HEPCAT database. Being an essential process after every submission.HEPCAT Basics Training videosTo assist you with using HEPCAT a range of Online Training Videos have been created and available on our training page on HEIMSHELP. We plan on developing more online training, if there are any videos you would like to see developed please send us an .
41Installation of HEPCAT Two step processPrerequisitesInstalled onceDatabaseApplicationRegular updatesAs mentioned the installation of HEPCAT is a two part process. You may need administration rights to your PC and IT Support.The first step is loading the HEPCAT prerequisites. That means setting up your PC to run the application and also setting up the folders required by HEPCAT.You will only be required to install the prerequisites once on your PC, generally no requirement to remove when a new version of HEPCAT is available.As your HEPCAT database is part of the prerequisites it’s important that you do not remove the prerequisites from your PC, otherwise you will loose your HEPCAT database and loose all of your reporting history from that PC.The second step is then to install the applicationHEPCAT is regularly updated. When reporting data the latest version of HEPCAT is required otherwise you will not be able to submit your data until HEPCAT has been updated on your PC. Having to wait for IT support at your organisation is not a valid reason to miss a reporting deadline.It is advisable that when we notify you that HEPCAT has been upgraded that you install this latest version at your earliest convenience. We do our best to ensure that upgrades occur away from submission deadlines to minimise the impact on reporting deadlines.Details about latest HEPCAT versions are available from the Reporting with HEPCAT toolkit.
42Accessing HEPCATOnce HEPCAT has been installed on your PC it can be accessed by clicking on the start menu
43Accessing HEPCAT and by selecting HEPCAT from the list of programs. We will now go into HEPCAT to create a VET Course Submission. This process will be the same for higher education providers to create a Course of study submission.
44Logging into HEPCATWhen you first log into HEPCAT this screen will appear. Your Logon credentials issued by our team will allow you to access HEPCAT.I will log in under the test account, providers can also log into this test account as it will give you an opportunity to become familiar with using HEPCAT without impacting on your provider account.
45Logging into HEPCATFor our demonstration I will be logging in as a VET provider.
46Red bar indicates logged in as a VET Provider Before I start the demonstration I will explain the information on the front screen of HEPCAT.The red bar at the top is indicating that I am logged into the VET FEE-HELP data collection. For higher education providers your bar will be blue.
47The file, edit, view, tools and help are the usual Microsoft menus available in HEPCAT.
48The submission status panel indicates the current status of a submission. In our demonstration we will work through each of the different statuses.
49When a submission is created it will have a status of in progress.
50When the file has successfully validated the submission will have a validated status
51When the file has been submitted it will move to a submitted status
52On submission of your data to HEIMS further validations outside of HEPCAT will occur and if your data passes these validations your submission will be accepted by HEIMS and submission status will move to accepted.
53If the submission does not pass validations on reporting to HEIMS the submission will have a status of rejected.
54In the submission details section HEPCAT will automatically populate the details once the submission has been created.
55This section provides information on the application and database version that is currently being used. The latest version of the HEPCAT is and Database data base.The HEPCAT application was recently updated, if you don’t have this latest version you will need to upgrade you will be unable to submit your data for 31 August 2014 submission. As to not delay your reporting we ask that you update to this latest version as a matter of priority. You may need IT support from your organisation and this may take time.Detailed instructions on how to update HEPCAT is available from the Reporting with HEPCAT Toolkit.
56In this section is you are provided with information on what’s been included or changed with the latest release of HEPCAT and known issues. Detailed information on releases are available from the Reporting with HEPCAT toolkit along with instructions of how to install or upgrade to the latest version of HEPCAT.
57I will now demonstrate how to create a VET Course submission I will now demonstrate how to create a VET Course submission. For higher education providers the same process applies for you to create your Course of study submission.A submission is created by clicking on the file menu top left of the screen,
61By selecting VET Course the details of the submission type is added to the submission criteria,
62I will be creating a 2014 Course Submission so the reporting year for 2014 is selected.
63A reporting period can not be selected for a course submission as this file is for the entire year. I will explain how the reporting periods work when I demonstrate the student submission in Module 2.HEPCAT will automatically create the submission number, based on the last submission created by the PC. As this is my first submission the number will appear.
64By clicking on open HEPCAT will create the submission type selected, being the Course.
65You can see the submission has been created and the status is in progress.
66And details of the submission has been populated into the submission details section.
67To see reveal the entire data grid for this submission click on the thumb nail, top left of the Submission panel.
68When you need to return to the submission panel click on the Submissions on the left as noted on the screen.
69Looking at the entire data grid, the layout of this grid is identical to the specifications provided in the VET Course of Study Structure document.As mentioned all file structure documents are available on HEIMSHELP.
70I will now import data into the grid, this can be done in two ways by either keying your data manually into each data cell as shown or
71you can use the import function to import your data you can use the import function to import your data. Data files can be imported by two ways
72can be imported from the tools menu at the top by clicking on import can be imported from the tools menu at the top by clicking on import. I will import the data using the menu option.
73I will now import the course file, the data in this file has been compiled as specified in the file structure guidelines. Most providers would have a process in place that allows them to output the data from their student systems in the format required for reporting to HEPCAT.By selecting on import the import submission box will appear,
74as I have created the submission for VET Course 2014 , I have selected to import data into this submission so HEPCAT will automatically populate the details into the Import Submission Details Section.
75To locate your data file for this submission on your PC or network, select browse.
76the application will default to the HEPCAT/Import folder on your C drive.
77files can be saved to this default folder or on a network drive files can be saved to this default folder or on a network drive. If your file does not appear it has not been named correctly.You can see on the screen that my file is named 9998VCO and ready be imported.
78Before I import the file, I will now explain how this file is named.
79The first four digits of the file name is the provider number that the department has allocated to your organisation.As I am working in the test account the provider number is 9998
80Next is the abbreviation of the file type, as I have created a VET Course file it’s abbreviation is VCO for higher education providers your abbreviation for your Course of Study file would be CO.
81Next is the year in which the submission applies to, as my submission is for the 2014 year then the file is named as 2014.
82Next is the period, as mentioned earlier half yearly periods do not apply to the Course file, for system purposes the period will always be 1 for the Course file.
83The final digits in the naming of the file is the submission number The final digits in the naming of the file is the submission number. As several submissions can be reported for the same submission type the number of submissions can range from 1 to as many as 99,999.Detailed information on naming your files is available in the File naming convention documents which you can download from the Reporting with HEPCAT toolkit for both VET providers and higher education providers. A link to this document has been provided on the supporting webpage.
84I will now return to importing the course file, by clicking on open will select the file.
85by clicking on import the file will be imported into the data grid.
86If the file has loaded successfully a green tick will appear in the import submission box. If a red cross appears there is an issue with how your data file has been structured, possibly the file length is wrong. As mentioned earlier the format for data files must follow specifications detailed in the structure documents. If the cross appears you will need to review your output processes to check how the data is being formatted.
88You can now see that data has been imported into the data grid, course details - course codes, names, course levels, field of education and course duration.
89This submission is now ready to be validated, for data to be reported all validation rules must be passed. To validate the submission click on the validation tab above the shortcut toolbar.
90This validation screen will appear listing the validation levels that apply to this submission type. More information on validation is available in our Validating your data webinar or from the Validating your data toolkit.
91By clicking on the plus sign next to each validation level, the rules that apply for that level are listed. So I have expanded the levels to display all validation rules that are performed on this submission.When demonstrating the student submission in Module 2 I will show you a handy tip that will help to manage and control the number of errors, this tip is also provided in our Webinar on Validating your data.
92For a submission to validate successfully all of the validation rules must be run, so I have selected all.
93All of the validation rules have been selected, to run the validation process click on validate files.
94For new providers who have not reported data before this error message will appear which you can ignore.Error Message states that: Your selection of validation rules includes X-Sub-time these rules will be ignored in this validation run because no previously reported submission for the relevant reporting year/period exists in HEPCAT.This validation rule checks against data in similar submissions, as this is a course submission it will check against data reported in other course submissions for the same reporting year.
102You will recall that before we validated this submission the status was in progress.
103Now that the submission has been validated the status has moved to Validated. Progressing a submission within HEPCAT from in progress to validated is your objective to enable the data to be reported to the department.
104This submission is now ready to be reported to the department by clicking on file in the top menu.
106The submission box will appear to make a selection, as the VET Course submission is now ready to be reported to the department, this submission can be selected.
107The details of the Course file now appears in the Submit Submission Details section
108click on submit to report the data to the department. As I am working in the test account I cannot submit this data.
109When your data has been submitted the status in HEPCAT will appear as submitted as shown on the screen.
110On reporting of this data from HEPCAT to HEIMS as mentioned further system checks are performed and HEIMS will either accept or reject the submission. If HEIMS errors occur, details of these errors can be reviewed in your submission reports in HEIMSOnline.
111Reporting with HEPCAT to HEIMS Check your data after each submission using HEIMS OnlineFormal Verification occurs twice a yearThe system Validates dataallowing you to submitHEIMS accepts data after successful validationCreate a submission and import data to HEPCATInstall HEPCATLogon details requiredSo in summary I demonstrated the steps to successfully report data to the department. A submission was created, data was imported into the submission, HEPCAT validations were performed and the submission status of the file progressed from in progress to validated, it is now ready to be submitted.The final step is checking your data after submission using HEIMSOnline, your data can be checked as earlier as the next day. In module 2 we will cover HEIMSOnline.
112For all your policy queries Policy and program managementAdministration of FEE-HELP and VET FEE-HELPFinancial estimates and paymentsHELP IT System (HITS)Contact Communications & Student Support TeamIf you have any policy or program questions please contact our colleagues.
113Need more help?For all your data questions contact Tertiary Information Management and Analysis Section Telephone: (02)Please don’t hesitate to contact us if you need any further assistance with reporting.[NEXT SLIDE]
114What’s in Module 2 Final steps to successful reporting HEPCAT demonstrationReporting student dataResolving errorsUnderstanding validation rulesHEIMS Online submission reportsQuality control tipsSo what’s covered in Module 2Today we only covered 3 steps to successful reporting, so in module 2 we will reveal the final steps.We will continue with HEPCAT to demonstrate a student submissionResolving errors in HEPCATUnderstanding validation rulesHEIMS Online submission reportsAnd Quality control tipsBefore we close todays session we would like to thank you for participating in this webinar and if you have not ready registered for Module 2 please do so.