Presentation on theme: "Munnelly Origins Version 5 Presented June 22, 2013 Scranton, Pennsylvania We have a History Our direct ancestors, the O’Maonghailes arose as early as1300."— Presentation transcript:
1Munnelly Origins Version 5 Presented June 22, 2013 Scranton, Pennsylvania We have a History Our direct ancestors, the O’Maonghailes arose as early as1300 and recently as 1500Our name was carried by those living in the 8th and 9th century and they were very likely our ancestors too.Thank Marianne Manley Granoff for her effort in beginning Munnelly history by locating the first entry and in role as Munley Y-DNA Administrator.Pronunciation of Irish names and placesPlan for PresentationCounty Mayo An Investigation of Munnelly OriginsDonegal OriginsIf Speculative
2Part 1: County Mayo John O’Donovan Ordinance Survey 1838 John O’Donovan was a 19th Century Irish historian who among other things tried to learn the origin of every place name and surname on the Ireland. He often consulted the old people when he visited an area to learn the past. He didn’t accept everything he heard.The connection most commonly made was that the O’Maonghailes must have left Donegal at the time of O’Doherty’s Revolt in 1608Last year’s presentation took this point of view even though there was no corroborating evidence
3Roman Catholic Parishes of County Mayo Explain where Munnellys are found historically.Point out new places Ballina, Bangor Erris, BelmulletOld places Crossmolina, Killala
4The Earliest Munnellys The earliest recorded group of Munnellys is found in a set of decrees known as the Tudor Fiants. In a pardon issued 8 March 1593 in Fiant number 5798 the following eight people are mentioned: “Melaghlin oge m’Philip O Monylla, Edm. m’Wm. O Monylla, Cormock O Monillae, Edm. m’ Riccard O Monyllae, Shan oge O Monyllae, Oueny O Monyllae Rich. O Monyllae and Wm. m’Rickard buy, of same husbandmen” They were living in a place recorded as Ballincashill which is known today as Ballycastle.What were the Fiants and why are they so usefulAnother possible Munnelly reference appears in the record around this time. Richardo Manaly was an Irish soldier serving in the Spanish army in Flanders around 1606.The Fiants are the Irish name of royal degreesThe Fiants were pardons for participation in an attack on authority. Or a last gasp of a long cycle of inter clan warfare. In this case lead by the MacWilliam clan allied to the O’Donnells of Ulster. The six pardons list about 340 people, most of them heads of households. With the few exceptions of major players in the conflict everyone else was pardoned and fined five shilling.While not as complete as a census, the list of pardons may well contain the first time many of the families names in northern County Mayo can be found. It also lists the places people lived and what they did.
5Doonfeeny and Downpatrick Head near Ballycastle on the north coast of County Mayo 2012
6BallymunnellyO’Donovan’s remark connecting the O’Monnellys to Ballymunnelly is confirmed.In a legal deposition taken in 1642, Teige O’Monelly and Richard O’Monelly of Bavonelly [sic] along with Richard Barrett of Cloontikilla, Edmund Barrett of Drinishia [sic] and several others were named in crimes on Edmund Barrett’s land in County Mayo. Bavonelly is almost certainly Ballymunnelly. The deposition is among many connected to the uprising that began in October 1641, which included attacks on people, loss of property, and an attempt to seize Dublin Castle.Ballymunnelly or “Munnelly’s Place” was named for the group.Many family names from Ulster are found in County MayoNo Northern names in County Mayo can be found in the 1593 Pardon, 1635 landownership or the 1641 Dispositions.This Indicate the O’Maonghaile group was uniqueTalk about the background of the 1641 Deposition projectBegan around 2007 depositions are on-lineSimilar to the Tet Offensive in VietnameA coordinated uprising timed in the week before the payment of rents due November 1.Directed against landowners.Background of Religious wars in EuropeEnglish Civil War spread to IrelandSpanish support for IrelandAftermathThe Catholic Bishop fled into hiding in Galway. Church lands lostEnd of Irish ownership of land
7The records establish a continuing Munnelly presence in the area Friar James Monely, a Franciscan priest, was recorded in 1704 during the registration of the clergy. He was in Cloontakilla, on the shore of Carrowmore Lake, not far from Ballymunnelly.Cormuck Monnilly, a Franciscan priest, appears in probably at Moyne Abby. He is also remembered by Munnellys in the oral tradition.Talk about the registration of the clergy. Seminaries were closed.Only about 50 priests were legally operating in Ireland under great regulation, driving the Church underground.Father James Monely was required to have a surety or bond of £50 posted by 2 others. His bond was sponsored by Manus O’Donnell who lived hear Westport. He was the son of the man who lead the O’Donnells to Ballycroy.I want to go over the 1593 pardon in Ballycastle, the 1641 deposition in Ballymunnlly and talk about Ballymunnelly.
8The 1417 Topographical Poems In 2004 “The Great Book of Irish Genealogies: Leabhar Mor Na nGenealach” was published. This is the first time some of the material has been available in English. It is 3,100 pages long.In 2006, Muraile followed up with, “Dubhaltach Mac Fhirbisgh and County Mayo”, a shorter version of the first work covering County Mayo.What are topographical poems?A compilation written in 1666 based on topographical poems composed from 1417.Many of the same surnames found in Ballycastle in the 1593 Fiants are also found in this workNo names similar to O’Monnelly are found. This may well be an indication that the group was not in the area until the late 1400s or about the year 1500Before the 1593 pardon list the next earlier records are the topographical poems.Consist of tributes by leading clans to there neighbors and supporters.
9Ballymunnelly first appears in “The Composition of Connacht” in 1585 The policy behind the consignment was known as “Surrender and regrant” by the English to local chiefs under common law.Feudalism being born. The deal was that the King would support your right to the land but, in turn there was an obligation to provide support to the Crown.The documents spell out the obligation in explicit terms. For example, 60 men and 20 horse is typical of the what landowners had to supply.
10BallymunnellyIt seems to never have supported many people. But would have had cattle.The general feeling is like being in a large valley.It is along a strategic road between Crossmolina and the coast.It is south of the settlement on Carrowmore Lake.It was not listed as a townland or settlement in the modern censuses of Ireland beginning in 1841The Chapel there was built in 1952The land is boggy and area was proposed as the site for a nuclear power plantFirst appears in 1585 Consignment of Connacht
11The Browne Map II 1591This is the Browne map II completed six years after the Consignment of Connacht. Show the Browne Map I and show difference. Mention the copy of the Browne II in journal.1584 through 1601 were tumultuous time marking the beginning of the conquest of western Ireland by the English. The area had never been mapped ,as Lyle’s 1571 map did not include the west and northern part of the island.John Browne surveyed western and northern Ireland for the English military in early 1583 and 1584 using advanced techniques. We know he surveyed from hill tops and can determine where the surveyors went. The survey party must have passed close to Ballymunnelly.John Browne was a party to the Consignment of Connacht in 1585It is reasonable to infer that Ballymunnelly was already settled by this time.In 1588 the Spanish Armada left ship wreaked Spaniards on the west coast of County Mayo but Ballymunnelly had already been settled.
12BallymunnellyBallymunnelly was a “quarter” when it was first mentioned in 1585 and was still listed as a quarter in the “Strafford Inquisition of County Mayo” in1635.The quantity of land in a quarter or carrow in Ireland depended on how productive it was.The meaning of a quarter can be gleaned from the records. Typical descriptions mention the ability to graze 40 cows on a quarter of land and to use what were termed under tenants.
13A typical description of carrow or quarter in 1635
14Working the LandIn the 1642 deposition the Monellys and others are described as tenants and farmers, meaning, they lived there permanently. This is consistent with the 1593 entry describing them as ‘husbandmen’. There is no way to know from the information what the tenancy arrangement was.Typically, the arrangement was semi-permanent and measured in lives plus a fixed number of years.Give example of three lives and ten years.The significance of this is that tenancy lasted a long time.
15Ballymunnelly on Petty’s Map 1683 Next slide shows that Tirawly and Erris, two of the subdivisions of the county, have a very different population distribution because of bog land. This had an impact on our ancestors and how they lived.This pattern is throughout Ireland
17In Erris the settlements were in pockets of better land with dense populations. Using Google Maps shows how the pattern looks in detail.It was said, perhaps ironically that “The worse land had the most people”Notice how the Bellmullet Peninsula is relatively bog free.Population Density 1841
18The 1593 Pardon“Melaghlin oge m’Philip O Monylla, Edm. m’Wm. O Monylla, Cormock O Monillae, Edm. m’ Riccard O Monyllae, Shan oge O Monyllae, Oueny O Monyllae Rich. O Monyllae and Wm. m’Rickard buy, of same husbandmen”One can infer the relationship of these eight men from their Gaelic names, as follows:Melanghlin was the son of another Melanghlin, the grandson of Philip and great grandson of O’MonyllaEdmund was the son of WilliamShan was the son of another ShanWilliam and Edmund were the sons of Richard who is Richard O MonyllaeWe don’t know about Cormock or Oueny (Owen)
19The names in the 1593 Pardon reveal the O’Maonghailes had existed for a least four generations or about 100 yearsGBirth11490The founder possibly“Maonghaile O'Doherty”21518Philip O MonyllaRiccard O Monillae(Unknown) O Monyllae31545Melaghlin O MonyllaWilliam O MonyllaEdmund O MonillaeCormock O MonillaeOueny O MonyllaeRichard O Monyllae41573Melaghlin Oge O MonyllaEdmund O MonyllaShan Oge O MonyllaeWilliam O MonyllaeFocus on the left sided group. Which shows 4 generations clearly. The rest of the slide is to illustrative.We have no way of knowing if these were the only O’Maonghailes in County Mayo.The 1500 date would be the latest time for the formation of the groupMaonghaile O’Doherty is hypothetical we don’t know if he was the founder of this particular group
20Estimating The Time Of The Common Munnelly Ancestor It is possible to estimate that the common ancestor of the Munleys lived between 1300 and 1500 A.D. Each of these methods is discussed below and leads to a similar resultUsing Dr. Klyosov’s linear method of computation and probabilities. The simplest formula is this: Number of haplotypes (samples) X Number of mutations from Model X .090 for 37 Marker samples = Generations to a Common AncestorUsing the 15 Munley samples currently on Family Tree DNA with at lease 37 markers, the formula is 15 X 21 X .090 resulting in generationsAt 25 years per generation that is 709 years, at 30 years per generation it is Working backwards from 2013 gives the years 1163 to 1304Family Tree DNA probabilities, the maximum estimated distance between pairs of the 15 samples as 850 years or about The two computations give similar results.
21The Oral Traditions of Munnelly Origins The First Munnellys were told by an old woman to follow their cattle until they reached a large valley, which became Ballymunnelly. Seven brothers who settled in different places in the shape of star.The stories capture something about Munnelly settlementIt is spread outIt is in older areasProbably settled when all of northern County Mayo was controlled by the MacWilliam clan – before The territory was split with the Barrett clan in 1584.The Munnellys were from SpainThe first was Phil Munnelly’s version. Thomas Munnelly of County Kildare’s version has five brothers.
22Part 2: Before County Mayo Records in English begin around 1580 while Irish records ended as a result of the Reformation and conquest.While written records begin as early as 700 A D they are not complete. The records were kept by monks and poets in Latin, Gaelic and Irish but they are qualitatively different from the English language ones.Annals of Ulster and other books noted significant events by yearIn this period research is increasing done by “Triangulating’ historical records with Y-DNA samples and place names to gain an understanding.Testing the Munnelly – Manley Y-DNA connection to the Doherty clan inconclusiveThe Cenel Moan or Clan Moan also show an historical connection and similarity in their Y-DNA to the Munnelly – Manley samplesThe historical and Y-DNA connections linking the O’Maonghaile and MacMaonghail groupsNature of records. One historian described the situations as similar to have 10% of the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.We will look at three groups that show a strong connection to ours.We’ll pretend we are detectives using locations, names and DNA to find our origins in Donegal.
23Summery of historical evidence pointing to a Doherty connection In the Doherty clan genealogy, three ancestors bore the names Maenghuile, Moenghuile or Maonghail in the ninth and tenth centuries.The name is not associated with any other clanIt was not used as given names or surname after this timeThere is an old fort named Dunwiley is in the Doherty homeland next to Ardmiran in County Donegal and it is believed to preserve the name Maonghaile.O’Donovan’s comments in the Ordinance Survey LettersThe oral tradition for five or seven brothersWe will examine each of these in detail
24The Maonghaile connection in the Doherty Genealogy is remote AindilisConor managh (of the monks)DonallRoryDonall morAngusMuirchertaghDermotConorDonal fin (white)Donogh don (brown)Donall of Drom FornoghMaenghaileDonoghMaonghaileDochartach (the first Doherty)FiamahanCindaladhGairbRonanLuighdheachSeadnaFergusConall GulbanAindilis, the first chief of the Doherty clan in The Maonghailes lived in the 9th CenturyThe Doherty genealogy from the first O’Doherty in 1180 back to the very beginning. All known lines of the clan trace to AindilisO’Maonghaile is not mentioned as one of the lines descended from Aindilis.There is no record of the Dohertys before Aindilis. Possibly there never was a record or if there was it no longer exists.The actually Doherty lineage may have been different. As it is known that some clans ‘backdated’ genealogies. This is comparable to the practice of juicing up a resume.The lineage above shows that the Dohertys were close descendents of the O’Donnel clan and a straight line to Niall of the Nine Hostages, the oldest and most prestigious line in Ulster.
25County Donegal Inishown where the Doherty clan later moved Buncrana was the last headquarters.Point out Stranolar and the Finn River ValleyThe first Doherty center was hereThe next side will give a closer look at this area.
26Donegal Showing Stranolar, Admiran, Dunwiley and the Clan Moan Area Point out how close everything its
27The Fort of DunwileyThe fort of Dunwiley. The first element in Maenghuile, Gaelic maoin, means wealth or treasure. In the second element, ‘ghuile’, “gh” can be “dh” pronounced like ‘y’ or if it is located in the middle or end of a name, it is usually silent. ‘Ghuile’ is thought to equate to ‘wiley’ in ‘Dunwiley, rendered as Dun Mhaonghuile’ or fort of Maonghaile and if the case, it would seem the history of the O’Dochartys can be tentatively traced to the ninth century.The fort has a unique design indicated a connection the Vikings or Romans.
28The Fort of DunwileyThe Herringbone design of the fort suggests Viking or even Roman influence. The picture below shows a herringbone design in a reconstruction of the Viking settlement in L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada or Vineland. Both forts date from 1000 A DThe fort maybe older than the Doherty clan!
29Comparison of Munnelly and Doherty Y-DNA Munnelly Y-DNA is similar to that of the Dohertys in that they are both R1b1a2a1a1b4bMost, but not all Doherty samples have a value of 22 at a location known as YCAIIbThis nearly unique marker is not found in the Munnelly groupEvery Munnelley has a value of 12 at location None of the Dohertys or any other group has the value 12 at 455If the Munnelly results had 22 at location YCAIIb there would be little doubt that they were at one time part of the Doherty clan, but that is not the case.They share other similarities along with differencesThere a lot of detail and background to go into about DNA and comparing Y-DNA.It is a new field and still evolving. The names of groups of related Y-DNA seems to change ever few years.Still, it is helpful to go beyond saying we’re close to the Dohertys or we’re close to the Clan Moan and get specific.It is help in comparison.
30The Munnellys Show a Connection to the Clan Moan Munnelly Y-DNA is similar to a lesser known group of surnames historically part of a group known as the Cenel Moain or Clan Moain. The group was composed principally of the O’Gormleys clan, with several others such the O’Kanes, McHenrys.All of these groups and the Munnellys are 23 where the Dohertys are 22.They also lived in the Finn River Valley near Dunwiley, Ardmiran, Stranolar and west County Tyrone. The Clan Moan and the Dohertys ‘lived on top of each other”.The word Moan is similar to the first element in Maonghaile and it appears in no other clan genealogy.Moan, founder of the group, lived in about 600 – 700 before the Dohertys appear in the historical record 1180.The poems written in 1417 mention a place called Ráth na nGoirmghaill near Doonfeeny which sounds a lot like the fort of Gormley. It is right next to Ballycastle where the Munnellys were found in There are other Gormleys in the southern part of County Mayo.McAnally or McNally Y-DNA samples are closest to Munley samples.The McAnally are part of the Cenel MoanOne could conclude the O’Maonghailes are also part of the Clan Moan
31Ó Maonghaile, Mac Maonghail Surnames According to Patrick Woulf Mac MAONGHAIL –IV M’Mounell, M’Monnell, M’Monyll, MacMonagle, MacMongegal, MacMonigal, MacMonigle, MacMunigal, Monagle: ‘son of Maongal’ (wealth-valour); an old Donegal surname. For unaspirated g, cf. Mac CongailÓ MAONGHAILE --I O Monhily, O Monnilly, Munnelly, Monnelly, Monley, Manley; ‘des of Maonghal’ (gilt-valour); found chiefly in Donegal and North Connacht.The third candidate for an ancestral branchPatrick Woulfe 1923 “Irish Names and Surnames”Point out where Woulfe said the names were from and the various spellingsThe two names are combined in an ornate one page history available in Ireland.There are a very few people named McMunnelly. One is found in Donegal in the 1600s and another was a man who died in Durham England in the 1960’sThere were none found looking in the Scottish records.
32Bishops of Raphoe Magonail – MacMaonghail or Conwall Padraig Magonail, MacMaonghail or Mac Congail Bishop of Raphoe 1367Donat Magonail or Mac Congail Sed 1563 death 1589 succeeded and assisted at the Council of Trent in He was the last Catholic bishop of Raphoe.Here are two of the better known of the MacMaonghaile group. Spelling are not standardiezed
33Mac Maenghal - ConwellWhen I starting checking this angle a few years ago there was only one McMonigal sample of DNA to compare to Munnelly samples.It was not close.A couple months ago I looked again and found there were now five samples of the McMonigal. It looked like Doherty samples with a value of 22 YCAII B rather than 23.This paragraph is found in a history of Diocese of Raphoe written in 1920.Read all of it.Show comparison on Y-DNA PageWhat is an herenach? A lay superintendent of church lands, the hereditary warden to the church.Which of the three, Doherty, Clan Moan or MacMaonghaile are we?
34Moenghal in Early Medieval Times Moenghal appears in the Doherty family tree and in the name of several abbots in the “Annals of Ulster” and other books851 Moenghal abbot of Ardstraw in west County Tyrone dies855 Maenghal, abbot of Fobhar in West Meath dies869 Maenghal the Pilgrim, abbot of Beannchair near Bangor County Down dies873 Maenghal, Priory of Clonmacnoise died County Offaly diesI mentioned in the introduction that the name Maonghaile was carried by those living in the 9th Century or early Medieval time.That fact that all the men are church officials may tie them to membership in the MacMaonghaile group, who as we saw were frequently officials in the same area. The maybe connected to us too.Notice that in the previous slide the mention that the MacMaonghailes were herenrachs to the O’Donnells.James Monely, the priest back in Cloontikilla was also connected to the O’Donnells.There is a surprising amount known about one or two of these men which we will see in the next few slides.
35Moenghal’s Poem to King Niall In 844 Moenghal the Pilgrim wrote upon the death of King NiallTake with thee the total destruction of Niall,who was not a judge without judgment,To the King of heaven let him make submission,that he may make smooth for him every difficulty.Niall was drownedNiall was goodNiall in the seaNiall in fireNiall without death.
36Marcellus – Moenghal 9th Century Scribe, Writer, Musician and Missionary Was known as Marcellus. He travelled with his nephew and visited Bobblio, ItalyLived at St Gall Abbey in SwitzerlandHas two manuscripts one in Zurich and the other in BaselWrote in Latin and GreekZimmer, a German Academic attempted to prove that Marcellus – Moenghal was the same man as the Moenghal the Pilgrim in DonegalA great musician and teacher to the Medieval composer Nokter (840 – 912)
37St Gall Abby Switzerland Founded by St Gall an Irish missionary and follower of St Columba.Long association with Irish monksThe library hass one of the largest collections of Medieval manuscripts many produced by Irish scribes.Much of it is viewable on-line.
38Moenghal-Marcellus’s Greek and Latin Manuscript in the Universitätsbibliothek Basel, Switzerland
39The Moenghal Inscription at Inis Cealtra Monestary in County Galway “MOENGAL MAC LODGIN” was found carved on a stone at Irish cealtra Abbey in Galway. The context would date it to around 1000 A D. Mac Lodgin was possibly a person named Laidgen mentioned in the 7th Century.
40Part 3: Speculative Evidence There are about 80 people using the name Moneghal in Barcelona, Spain with others in France and UruguaySteve Dunford’s work on Rathfran Abby near Lackan and Killala, County Mayo
41Rathfran Abby County Mayo me fiery fecit - Latin literally “made by me” or the name of the sponsorThe abbey was built in the 1200s The stone would have to be older then the building. It is likly the name is O’Maille (O’Malley) The group was known to have connections to this area after the abbey was built..Mention websiteThanks to several people who read earlier draftsPeter Manley, Marianne Manley Granoff, Alan Milliken, Steve Dunford in Killala, County Mayo. Standing 6’4” high and 2’ wide at the top, narrowing to 1’6” at the base, The inscriptionhas been deciphered as possibly reading:- “Joannes O’Munilay(or it could be O’Maille) me fiery fecit This date may not be correct.