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CAMUS Are they really Equal? VS CAMUS It can be a little grey if you dont have all the information. RBI has worked hard to develop a worry free INDUSTRIAL.

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Presentation on theme: "CAMUS Are they really Equal? VS CAMUS It can be a little grey if you dont have all the information. RBI has worked hard to develop a worry free INDUSTRIAL."— Presentation transcript:

1 CAMUS Are they really Equal? VS CAMUS It can be a little grey if you dont have all the information. RBI has worked hard to develop a worry free INDUSTRIAL boiler design. Are youre equals truly keeping up?

2 On the outside it would seem so: COPPER FIN DESIGN DOWN-FIRED CONCEPT FULL MODULATION STAINLESS STEEL CABINETS EFFICIENCY FROM 88% TO 92% PLUS MANTLE TYPE BURNER SMALL FOOTPRINT CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION

3 A closer look though…. THE IGNITION SYSTEM: The ignition system shall be a commercial / industrial design utilizing an interrupted spark ignition system independent of the main burner. The system shall provide UV flame monitoring (sensor eye) with 100% shut off upon failure during the trial for ignition period. The use of glow coil ignition systems shall not be permitted. CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION

4 A closer look though…. Flame safeguard Control: The boiler shall be equipped with a Honeywell RM7800 series commercial / industrial flame safeguard system independent of the boiler sequencing controls. The flame safeguard shall be a solid state digital diagnostic control with a removable display screen. Control shall monitor run hours, faults, fault timing, and keep a minimum of the last 5 faults in history. Control shall continually monitor and display boiler status, and flame signal on a multi line LCD screen. CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION

5 Modulation and Reset: The boiler shall be fully equipped with boiler management controls equal to HeatNet (A Mestek Company). Controls shall… networkable Outdoor reset, stand alone, network, 4-10ma or 0-10vdc signal acceptable Operate multiple boiler modulation on the highest efficiency curve (intercommunication required) Not third party Log running errors and conditions continually. Firmware updateable through USB port and internet download. Communicate LonWorks, BacNet, and Modbus. Basic Tekmar single boiler modulation is not acceptable. Have hybrid technology to control various volume and efficiency type boilers. CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION Not equal. No network. Simple Tekmar control cut into panel. Third party control, limited input. No point reporting outputs. Complete Management system on board!

6 Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you! RBI FUTERA FUSION Analog Inputs Monitor Safeties Control Inputs Relay Outputs Digital Input Heat Net Link VFD Signal Hand Shake

7 Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you! RBI FUTERA FUSION Domestic Hot Water Priority On board HeatNet and Modbus connections Low Fire Hold Switch U Shaped Socket for direct mounted protocessor module Support for Dual Fuel Option Flash Drive Updateable Control Pro Compatible Set point signal control (reduce points and external requirements). On board outdoor reset and night set back. Digital or Analog Local AND system pump coordination control. Combustion air damper Sequencing. Multi-boiler efficiency maximization. Mestek Made – Mestek Supported Manufactured in Westfield, MA

8 Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you! RBI FUTERA FUSION SET POINT CONTROL OPTIONS INCLUDE: Boiler to Boiler Communication – Heat Net Multiple Heat Bands Add Boiler Delay Timing Shed Boiler Delay Timing Adaptive Modulation – prevents short cycling Modulate Delay Time (Low Fire Hold) Mod Max – till last boiler fire Promote True Rotation (Sequencing) CONDITION MEMORIZATION BMS full integration Mestek Made – Mestek Supported Manufactured in Westfield, MA

9 Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you! RBI FUTERA FUSION Min/Max VFD – Load Match (low fire); Input Adjustment (Elevation, Direct Vent) Log Entry – Troubleshoot and Diagnostic Tool Records major activity Monitor Min Return Temp Heat Exchanger Delta T (Limits to half fire) Fail Safe Mode – Member Boilers First Boiler mode – Set up to optimize proper Venting Min Boiler Off Time

10 Separating RBI as an Equal is critical if these items are important to you! Camus THIRD PARTY, NOT SELF MANUFACTURED NOR SELF SUPPORTED. BOILER TO BOILER CANNOT MAXIMIZE MODULATION EFFICIENCY DOES NOT COMPLETELY INTEGRATE WITH BMS. VERY LIMITED INPUT/OUTPUT ABILITY. SIMILAR CONTROL USED ON OUR BASIC 85% HORIZONTAL DOMINATOR BOILER (APPRX. 50% OF THE COST OF A FUSION.) LONWORKS AND BACNET VERY DIFFICULT TO APPLY, CONDITION, WIRE AND INTEGRATE.

11 Still thinking equal? CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION

12 CONSTRUCTION - RBI FUTERA FUSION Condensing Package: The boiler shall be completely packaged and tested as a package by the factory. Boiler shall have the boiler package listed and tested as per UL/CSA and ASME section IV standards. Each boiler shall be fire-tested as a package in the factory prior to shipment. Test report shall show all combustion settings at various points of modulation, as well as corresponding delta T. A single primary pump shall be supplied, sized, piped and wired within the manufacturers control sequence by the manufacturer. A three way tempering valve shall be piped and wired to allow for return temperatures as low as 40F directly to a single water inlet. The use of independent secondary heat exchangers and/or economizers will not be permitted.

13 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN - RBI FUTERA FUSION Fully packaged, means : 1.Three way bypass valve keeps the primary heat exchanger at the required 140F (copper). 2.Flow Switch (ILO LWCO) 3.Primary pump sized for both the primary/secondary hX. 4.ASME relief valve for both primary/secondary HX. 5.Approved T & P gauge. 6.Vessel drain valves as required by OHIO code. all factory provided, mounted, wired, and tested

14 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN - RBI FUTERA FUSION Single System inlet/outlet Single Primary pump mounted and wired Complete quick latch access to all heat exchangers. Non-electric bypass valve set and mounted. All stainless steel jackets (no plastic tops) HeatNet on board and ready to go Pallet jack fork lift ready!

15 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Can one boiler be everything to everybody? You do the math.. Dynaflame Modulation Non- Condensing boiler Stack Economizer Dynaflame Fully condensing boiler

16 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! All the packaged items on the RBI already handle that so the boiler can be put in, and simply hooked up!

17 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! Rbi includes the non-electric thermostatic valve in their design.

18 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! Does this sound like a true condensing design? Lets see Non-condensing can return 115F but condensing 130F?????

19 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! Absolutely untrue. We represent Cat. II and IV boilers that have NO minimum and some that have a 60F limit. Its about design, not official listing!

20 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! So, they give us the CHRM separate and we have to protect it (flow and temp), shed the load with it, monitor temperatures and be responsible for any misapplication? Again, not a packaged condensing boiler!

21 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! Finally, a drawing! Of course, this is typical.. Since you have to design and pipe it, I guess you can do it however you want. Bottom line is, you need to pipe both HX, and control the primary temperature. If you dont.. Warranty is void!

22 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Experience Knows Better!

23 CONSTRUCTION & DESIGN – Dynaflame Camus Step one: Read the manual! Secondary HX in vent. add the flow switch, valves, and a second pump. Be sure to get the GPM from this HX and size the pump for it. Also add temp controls and sequencing. Primary HX separate. Dont forget 140F, 130F, 120F, or 115F… not sure which they really want but its up to you to keep it warm! Oh, and another primary pump! Below 140F, you better use a three way bypass system. Of course you need to design it and have it installed.

24 Still thinking equal? CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION

25 So far we have some serious cost differences making your equal a sure bet! Honeywell RM7800 series with screen vs Fenwell control: Three way thermostatic bypass valve installed and designed: Heat net management vs. Tekmar Primary pump installed, sized, wired and controlled. Turbo pilot with UV scanner, ignition transformer vs. glow coil. Access panels with quick release latches: If you are the contractor, you have no choice! CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION $ cost $ cost $ cost $ cost $ cost $ cost $ additional cost per boiler

26 Still, youll find some of the math wont add up. Why? Well, there will be a realization that all the equal products are far more expensive. Camus then had a cap to bid up to. This is the result of the last 2000MBH condensing boiler design we bid vs Camus: CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION $ For two boilers including freight, start up, warranty labor. $ For two boilers including freight, start up, they did NOT include factory labor warranty. NOTE THAT COSTS ARE CALCULATED BEFORE ANY MARGINS REQUIRED BY THE REP, DISTRIBUTOR, OR WHOLESALER.

27 On the outside the contractor seemed to have saved $6, Had he not used this price on bid day, he could have lost the project. Thats only $3, per boiler. Problem is, the END USER sacraficed $5, per boiler in equipment, trim and features or a total of $10, over all. Was the investment wise? Additionally, chances are the contractor was not aware he had additional cost in piping, pumping, design work, trim and safety controls. That closes the gap very quickly. If the contractor didnt know it, as an engineer you must know it because these items can easily slip by the submittal if you are not careful. The end user actually suffers from the very competition we think is healthy! CAMUS DYNAFLAME RBI FUTERA FUSION

28 The basis of design shall be the RBI Fusion series packaged condensing boiler. Sizes, quantities and capacities as listed on the drawings. Acceptable equal manufacturers shall still meet the performance and intent of this specification completely. Installation must completed in accordance to the requirements of the manufacturer. Any additional cost incurred by using one of the following approved manufacturers shall be that of the installing contractor. This includes, but is not limited to venting, piping, electrical, and/or any needed as built drawings. In accordance with the above, you may provide a product equal to the requirements of this specification as manufactured by: A: Aerco Benchmark B: Lochinvar Intellifin C: Laars Rihos The real Equals RBI FUTERA FUSION

29 Allowing the Camus Dynaflame to be an acceptable equal to a packaged condensing boiler opens the door for the following: Any copper boiler manufacturer should be permitted to provide his base boiler design with a separately shipped stack economizer. Base boilers should be allowed a light commercial residential flame safeguard and ignition system. Any form of boiler controls become acceptable because of the limitations of this equal product. The real Equals RBI FUTERA FUSION


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