4Interview vs. Interrogation Interview: A discussion about a specific subject, best conducted between two persons, for the purpose of gathering accurate information regarding a specific subjectInterrogation: A controlled conversation between two persons to obtain a confession or admission of guilt
5Tools of Interrogation Proper tools are requiredPerception of interrogation
6Interview Preparation To prepare thoroughly you must:Know your end game (individually and corporately)Know the risksKnow your topic—document review and outlineKnow your subjectEmployment fileBackground checkOther interviews
7Interview Preparation: Develop a Strategy WHO is present in the interview can make all the difference—pros and cons of having counsel or others present.WHAT is your purpose in the interview? i.e., What do you hope to get out of it? What do you think they know?WHERE you interview sets the stage, sends a message, and sets the tone, especially for adversarial interviews.
8Interview Preparation: Develop a Strategy WHEN you interview is importantTime of day or weekOrder of interviewsWHY have you decided to interview this person? Why now? Remember that every interviewee is a vulnerability to your investigation.HOW are you going to start and end the interview? What you say in the first minute can make or break you.
9Interview TipsCommunications researchers claim non-verbal communication makes up 65% to 70% of the “real” message.The real message can be contained in:voice - pitch, stress, tone, pauses,language - errors, qualifications, vaguenessfacial expressions - eye movement, licking lipsbody movements - grooming gestures, tapping
10Spare Thinking Time S-l-o-w D-o-w-n Control Think before you speak The power of Silence
11Take Control: “Have a seat.” Eliminate distractionsAllow for open discussionTaking notes = controlRecording interview?Fill in the missing linksMove with a purpose and a rhythmPostureWitness
12The Interview Setting Location—“Your place or mine?” Physical/Psychological advantageProps: Files, Cabinets, LabelsPosition person being interviewed near the exit with their back to the door4–6 feet apart; entire body in view
13Developing Rapport “To give of thyself” Be non-judgmental Even non-adversarial interviews require rapportBest sign of good rapport = conversational toneRapport development continues even after interview is over
14Mirroring - RapportMeans doing the mirror image of the movement of the subject in order to keep or take control of the interview
15History of Deceit Desire to be truthful Develop internal response by threeDevelop patterns of deceitDevelop signals
16Deceit What Indicates Deception? According to Freud: “He that has eyes to see and ears to hear may convince himself that no mortal can keep a secret. If his lips are silent, he chatter with his fingertips; betrayal oozes out of him at every pore”.
17And the #1 Most Common Interview Mistake Is . . . TALKING OR WRITING AND NOT LISTENING!
18Listening Discriminatory Listening Passive Listening My Perceptions and BeliefsPassive ListeningMore Attention to Notes then the SubjectEmpathetic ListeningObserves and Absorbs the Subject
20Introductory Questions Provides an introductionEstablishes rapportEstablishes the theme of the interviewsObserves the person’s reactions
21General Rules for Introductory Questions Don’t interview more than one person at a timeConduct interviews under conditions of privacyAsk non-sensitive questions (Minimization)Instead of: Use:Investigation InquiryAudit AnalysisInterview Ask a few questionsEmbezzle Shortage or paperwork problems
22General Rules for Introductory Questions Get a commitment for assistanceMake a transitional statementSeek continuous agreementDo not promise confidentialityNegotiationsDiscussing the source of allegations
23Informational Questions Open questionsClosed questionsLeading questionsQuestion sequences
24Informational Question Techniques Begin by asking questions that are not likely to cause the respondent to become defensive or hostile.Ask the questions in a manner that will develop the facts in the order of their occurrence, or in some other systematic order.Ask only one question at a time, and frame the question so that only one answer is required.Ask straightforward and frank questions; generally avoid shrewd approaches.Keep interruptions to a minimum, and do not stop the subject’s narrative without good reason.
25Informational Question Techniques Give the respondent ample time to answer; do not rush.Try to help the respondent remember, but do not suggest answers; and be careful not to imply any particular answer by facial expressions, gestures, methods of asking questions, or types of questions asked.Repeat or rephrase questions, if necessary, to get the desired facts.Be sure you understand the answers, and if they are not perfectly clear, have the subject interpret them at that time instead of saving this for later.Give the subject an opportunity to qualify their answers.
26Informational Question Techniques Separate facts from inferences.Have the subject give comparisons by percentages, fractions, estimates of time and distance, and other such methods to ensure accuracy.After the respondent has given a narrative account, ask follow-up questions about every key issue that has been discussed.Upon conclusion of the direct questioning, ask the respondent to summarize the information given; then summarize the facts, and have the respondent verify that these conclusions are correct.
27Methodology Informational Phase Begin with background questionsObserve verbal and nonverbal behaviorAsk non-leading (open) questionsApproach sensitive questions carefully
28Dealing With Difficult People Do not reactDisarm the personChange tacticsEscort to the doorInability to leave
29Volatile InterviewsAn interview that has the potential to bring about strong emotional reactions in the respondentThere should be two interviewersShould be conducted on a surprise basisThe order of questions should be out of sequenceUse hypothetical questions
30Assessment Questions Establishes the credibility of the respondent Norming or calibratingProcess of observing behavior before critical questions are askedPhysiology of deceptionPeople lie for one of two reasons: to receive rewards or avoid punishmentThe human body will attempt to relieve stress through verbal and nonverbal clues
31MethodologyInterviewer: “Most of them aren’t criminals at all. A lot of times, they’re just trying to save their jobs or just trying to get by because the company is so cheap that they won’t pay people what they are worth. Do you know what I mean?”Interviewer: “Why do you think someone around here might be justified in making a secret arrangement with one of the company’s vendors?”Interviewer: “How do you think we should deal with someone who got in a bind and did something wrong in the eyes of the company?”Interviewer: “Do you think someone in your department might have done something wrong because they thought they were justified?”
32MethodologyInterviewer: “Have you ever felt yourself—even though you didn’t go through with it—justified in taking advantage of your position?”Interviewer: “Who in your department do you feel would think they were justified in doing something against the company?”Interviewer: “Is there any reason why someone who works with you would say they thought you might feel justified in doing something wrong?”Interviewer: “What would concern you most if you did something wrong and it was found out?”
33Closing Questions Reconfirming facts Gathering additional facts What could you ask?Concluding the interview on a positive noteWhy?
34Nonverbal Clues Full-body motions Anatomical physical responses BreathingSweatingIllustratorsThe FaceMouthEyesManipulatorsFleeing positionsCrossingArms or LegsReaction to evidenceFake smiles
35Physical Indicators of Deceit Everyone but the most skilled commando exhibits involuntary outward physical signs when they are discussing something that makes them uncomfortable.The main indicator is change in movement.EyesUp, down, all aroundLook for variation
36Physical Indicators of Deceit PostureDetermine under casual circumstancesObserve change as pressure buildsChanges in demeanorMouth, Hands, Attention, Ticks
46Verbal Clues to Deception Changes in speech patternsRepetition of the questionComments regarding the interviewSelective memoryMaking excusesOathsCharacter testimonyAnswering with a question
47Verbal Clues to Deception Overuse of respectIncreasingly weaker denialsFailure to denyAvoidance of emotive wordsRefusal to implicate other suspectsTolerant attitudesReluctance to terminate interviewFeigned unconcern
48Verbal Indicators of Deceit Disruption in the speech patternStammerStutterSlurringBuying time—repeating the question“I don’t understand what you’re asking me.”UtterancesWhew!SighSnicker
49Qualified Memory Lapses “I don’t think so.”“I can’t recall.”“Not to my knowledge.”“I can’t remember.”“Not that I can think of.”“Not that I can remember.”“Not as far as I know.”“I have never heard that before.”
50The Criminal Gets Religion! “Honest to God . . .”“I swear on my mothers grave . . .”“May my parents drop dead if I’m lying . . .”“As God is my witness . . .”
51Opposites and Qualifiers “Honestly . . .”“I would never do . . .”“I’m not the type of person . . .”“You may not believe this, but . . .”“This is going to sound like a lie, but . . .”
52I’m GUILTY! Past trouble Similar incident in the past, admitted to it Third-personDenies virtually everythingPrejudice on the interviewers part
53False IssuesHistoryUnjustified angerArgument over irrelevant issues
54The Word NO Timing is everything—too late or too soon? Quality over quantity—“No, no, no, no, no.”Keep it cool—“ NOOOOOO!”Size matters—½ No (“N…”)
57Closing the Deal Requires momentum Requires timing Requires control May only get one chance be ready!Happens in stepsDon’t rush it!
58Admission-Seeking Questions Distinguish the innocent from the culpableObtain a valid confessionObtain from the confessor a written statement acknowledging the facts
59Admission-Seeking Questions Presence of outsidersMiranda warningsTheme developmentPeople will confess if they perceive that the benefits outweigh the penaltiesOffer a morally acceptable reason for the confessor’s behaviorConvey absolute confidence in the premise of the admission you seek from the subject
60Accusing an Innocent Person The accuser has reasonable suspicion or predication to believe the accused has committed an offense.The accusation is made under conditions of privacy.The accuser does not take any action likely to make an innocent person confess.The accusation is conducted under reasonable conditions.
61Subject FactsSubject is cashier & responsible for sales and cash refundsInternal Audit determined - Most returns of any other cashierUsed employee discount to purchase 11 TVs and returned 8 of them for cashTheory – Sold TVs to others and faked returns and/or created fake returns and pocketed the cash
67Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Establish rationalizationUnfair treatmentInadequate recognitionFinancial problemsAberration of conductFamily problemsAccuser’s actionsEstablish rationalizationStress, drugs, alcoholRevengeDepersonalizing the victimMinor moral infractionAltruismGenuine need
73Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Verbal confessionThat the accused knew the conduct was wrongFacts known only to the perpetratorAn estimate of the number of instances or amountsA motive for the offenseWhen the misconduct began
74Steps In The Admission-Seeking Interview Verbal confessionWhen/if the misconduct was terminatedOthers involvedPhysical evidenceDisposition of proceedsLocation of assetsSpecifics of each offense
75Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 1: Accuse the Subject“You did …”Lay out the facts that relate to subject’s guilt.Observe the subject’s reaction.If the subject denies responsibility - repeat the accusation.
76Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 2: Cut off DenialsStop denials by subject or he/she will become stronger and doubt the strength of your case.Interrupt and prevent additional denials - remember this is not an interview.Use nonverbal gestures to stop denials.A guilty subject will grow weaker as the denials are stopped.Tell the subject it is his/her turn to listen.
77Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 3: Provide reasons to confessTell the suspect why he committed the crime:Rationalize and minimize the subject’s behavior.Use the “emotional handles” located during the interview - Mom, drugs, alcohol,Give the subject reasons to confess.PATIENCE, PERSISTENCE & “PATTER”.Patter per Webster is “rapid speech of a salesman”.Maintain a monologue and momentum.
78Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 4: Redirect ProtestsProtests are reasons for innocence provided by the subject.The guilty subject will use protests because the denials have failed.Protests many times are accurate - don’t try to argue over something that is hard to refute.Try to incorporate protests into reasons to confess.
79Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 5: Maintain the Subject’s AttentionSubjects have a tendency to withdraw after denials and protests fail.Move closer to subject - violate his personal space. Get closer than 18 inches.Use the subject’s name and reek sincerity.Make the subject focus on the reason to confess.
80Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 6: Is the Subject Receptive?Nonverbal cues to subject giving in:Head dropsBody leans forwardTears - the “last line of defense”Reduce “Reasons to Confess” to a succinct concept.
81Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 7: Present a Good/Bad Option –Alternative QuestionPresent two explanations for subject’s criminal behavior:One explanation is objectionable - bad.The other explanation understandable - good.Tell the subject he based his actions on the good option.Ask the subject to confirm the good option.
82Admission Seeking – The Flow Step 8: Obtain the ConfessionIf the subject selects the “good option”:Express empathy and understanding.Ask open ended questions followed by more specific detailed questions.Get details of crime only known to subject.If the subject refuses to make a selection go back to different reasons to confess.Confessions come in pieces not one complete statement.Subjects will “test the water” with small omissionsGive the subject several little pieces or statements they can say yes to.
83Admission Seeking – The Flow After the subject makes a verbal confession express understanding.“You made a mistake”.Shake the subject’s hand and say “… I’m proud of you….”No high fives or gloating in front of the subjectWhy the act?Get the confession on paper.
84Taking a Signed Statement Voluntary confessionsIntentInstead of: Use:Lie I knew the statement/action was untrue.Steal I wrongfully took the property of ______ for myown benefit.Embezzle I wrongfully took ______’s property which hadbeen entrusted to me, and used it for my ownbenefit.Fraud I knowingly told ______ an untrue statement andhe/she/they relied on it.
85Taking a Signed Statement Approximate dates of the offenseApproximate amounts of lossesApproximate number of instancesWillingness to cooperateExcuse clauseHave the confessor read the statementTruthfulness of statementPreparing the statement
87Scientific Content Analysis (SCAN) Interviewing is often time consuming and difficult due to the investigators case load.Statement analysisUtilizes written statements to narrow the focus of an investigationEliminates innocent parties in minimal timeStructured on proven interviewing techniques
88Famous Statement“…I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski. I never told anybody to lie. Not a single time. Never. These allegations are false and I need to go back to work for the American people.”
89CONCLUSION When to use interview techniques At work? At home? Boss Co-workersAt home?SpouseChildrenNeighbors
90CONCLUSION II What do the indicators really mean? The subject is guiltyNOThe subject is lying
91P.S.I have only given you some of what is available to you in the search for truth. I learn something new every time I “interview” someone. Seek out additional information in your quest for the truth.
92Investigative Interviewing: Understanding the Art The End . . .No, Just the Beginning!
93Investigative Interviewing – Understanding the Art Larry Rosipajla, CPA, CFEForensic Alliance LLC(303) Cell